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Snape, Luna, Voldemort updated

The profiles for Snape, Luna and Voldemort have been updated. Voldemort’s entry is humongous but still good reading, I hope!

I also reworked the main character index page, taking out almost all of the graphics, so hopefully it will load faster.

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  • Oryx

    Comments on Snape’s character page:

    Quote:
    Their other classmates included James Potter, Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, Bertha Jorkins and the children of the Death Eaters Avery and Mulciber.
    ——-

    We do not know that Bertha Jorkins, Avery and Mulciber were in the same year as Snape and the Marauders. The Lexicon has Bertha (in her character page) at 2 years older than Snape and Marauders based on chapter 27 in GOF, though I am not sure why. Mulciber and Avery were still at Hogwarts during Snape’s 5th year, so we know they were no more than 2 years older than him.
    *******

    Quote:
    Over the years. Snape spent a lot of time following James and his friends around, trying to find ways to get them expelled.
    ——-
    That’s Sirius’ interpretation of Snape’s behavior. From DH it seems he followed them about because he hoped to find something about them that would turn Lily against them (especially James).
    **********

    Quote:
    On Voldemort’s orders, Snape applied for a Hogwarts professorship in the winter or spring of 1980 and while eavesdropping on her interview, overheard part of Trelawney’s prophecy regarding “the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord” and passed the part he heard on to his master.
    ———

    Though we know Snape was eavesdropping on Dumbleodre and Trelawney we do not know he was there for a job interview. Trelawney may have been speculating. There is no reason to think Voldemort sent Snape to Dumbleodre before the summer of 1981, when he probably had plans in place to take over Hogwarts once he managed to kill Harry. (Though if he did send Snape before, the purpose must have been for him to get hold of the sword of Gryffindor or information about its whereabouts for Voldemort’s last Horcrux.) In any case, since Aberforth threw Snape out of the bar I don’t think the 1980 interview, if there was supposed to be one, took place.
    *********

    Thanks for the updates, keep up the good work!

  • Reader2

    Ammazing!

    It was clear that Snape and Voldemort will need more than one page each.

    As usual, I have nit-picks.

    On Snape’s page, it sounds like you have put Betha Jorkins into the same year as Snape, which does not add up, while you did overlook Peter Pittigrew.

    On Voldemort’s page, I love your table of Hocruxes, but it says that the sacrifice to the Scar-Hocrux was the “rebounding curse”, which I assume to mean “Voldemort himself”.

    To me that doesn’t make much sence considering that Voldemort did not really die.

    I would much rather believe that the sacrifice was Lilly, who was killed right before the Horux’s was created.

    Also, what makes you think that the Diadem-Hocrux was created in 1945?

    There is no mention of Voldemort traveling outside the country right after he left school.

    After 1946, on the other hand, he went missing for 10 year, and he had the Diadem with him when he came to apply for work at Hogwart in 1956.

    Doesn’t all that suggest that he created the Diadem-Hocrux some time between 1946 and 1956?

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Reader2, The way I read it, the book says it was the rebounding curse that created the Horcrux: “when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragement of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole.”

    I based the 1945 for the diadem on this: “So Voldemort had managed to wheedle the location of the lost diadem out of the Gray Lady. He had traveled to that far-flung forest and retrieved the diadem from its hiding place, perhaps as soon as he left Hogwarts, before he even started work at Borgin and Burkes.” (DH31) I’ll add the citation to the entry.

    Oryx, thank you to to also. You’re certainly right about Bertha, and I will consider your other points as well. You’re not the first to comment recently on Snape’s “interview,” something I had long thought was established canon. It is good to go back and re-prove old ideas.

  • Rhona

    I’m realy happy about the pages of luna, snape and voldemort. Luna and snape are great! good work

  • kamion

    I see that at the Snape page the Werewolf incident is placed after the Worst Memory incident. Although in the Prince’s Tale chapter the impression id given it was vice versa. I now understand the werewolf incident was no more then a red herring in Rowlings concept, it’s function was to camuflage Snape’s real reason for protecting Harry. Snape never protected harry because of a life debt to James, but because of a love debt to Lilly.

    But still I wished Rowling made the chronology clearer, because it is hard to stew for me that Black got away for four or so years with a crime that jepardized the life of a foe, but also of a friend.

  • Mistral

    As always awesome work Lisa :-)
    Though since this is Snape, after Harry my favorite character – I must add my two cents.
    1. Should not Peter Pettigrew also be included as a student in Snape’s year?

    2. As we all know, Snape killed Professor Dumbledore on his order. So is this really MURDER what Severus did to him? I my opinion (probably I am alone in this?) it should say: He ended Dumbledore’s life! Calling him a murderer does not do Snape justice. Dumbledore would of died anyway. A. because of the Peverell ring and b. because he drank the poisoned water in the cave. Snape saved Dumbledore from dying a terrible death.

    3.Also, I think it would be perfect if you added how Snape delivered his final message to Harry – meaning the memory.
    Thank you Lisa

  • http://www.justsmashing.co.uk/slytherykin slytherykin

    yay! Thanks for putting those up :D I’ve got some minor quibbles with the Snape page but Oryx and Mistral have pointed them all out already!

    Just one thing, not as a correction but just as a thought to throw out here – did Snape really have no discernable reason to dislike Neville? I’ve been assuming it’s because he knew that he was the other boy Voldemort could have considered for the prophecy (although Snape admittedly doesn’t know about the choices part), and he probably wished Neville had been picked because then Lily would have lived. Not a good reason to dislike him, by any means, but a reason!

  • nirnel

    I see that Snape’s entry doesn’t mention the fact that it was him who asked Voldemort to spare Lily’s life. It’s a really important fact.

  • Cherry

    In the time line for Snape you might want to note the inconsistency that Snape did not become headmaster until August and yet he spoke to Dumbledore’s portrait (in the headmaster’s office) before Harry left the Dursleys in mid July.

    I like your suggestion Slytherykin as to why Snape might have a particular dislike of Neville.

  • Luna Lupin =Moony

    Well, mistral I agree with you that Snape ended Dumbledore’s life on his demand, compare the soldier who helped his beloved but deathly wounded friend by killing him (In Dutch I would say euthanasie).

  • Mistral

    Luna Lupin = Moony

    I so agree with the words you have chosen on Snape, ending Dumbledore’s live – also we should not forget – for Albus Dumbledore is was for “The greater Good”!

  • Oryx

    Cherry, since Dumbledore knew Snape might need to access the Head’s office before his appointment by Voldemort I suppose the two of them worked something out. A Portkey or a local bypass of Hogwart’s anti-Apparition wards (like Dumbleodre did for the Great Hall during the Apparition lessons).
    ———-

    Regarding Voldemort’s page:

    Tom Marvolo Riddle was born on December 31st 1926 (not 1928) – otherwise he wouldn’t have been 16 when he killed Myrtle and framed Hagrid in June 1943.

    The opening of the Chamber of Secrets was in Riddle’s 5th year (when he was 16 in June).

    “Secretly however, Tom was researching Horcruxes and had come to the conclusion that if one Horcrux was good, seven would be better (HBP23)” – actually he wanted a soul in 7 parts, for which he would need 6 Horcruxes.

    “Many of his Death Eater followers were tried by the Wizengamot and sentenced to Azkaban.”
    It seems the majority of them remained outside Azkaban, probably claiming to have been Imperiurized (like Lucius and Avery did). They were the ones that formed the circle in the graveyard in GOF. Only 12 people remained in Azkaban on charges of having been DEs after the last round of trials and arrests, and this number includes Sirius who was charged falsely (and never tried).

  • Mistral

    Timeline of Severus Snape

    Maybe this is nit-picking, but could you please add that Snape begged Dumbledore,to never tell – especially Harry, that he – Snape would do all in his power to protect Harry’s life.
    His precise word’s are: (DH)
    “But never – never tell, Dumbledore! This must be between us! Swear it! I cannot bear….especially Potter’s son

  • Marco

    slytherykin,

    I think, that Snape had bullied Neville predominantly due to his incompetence in Potions.

    As Snape was DADA professor in HBP, Neville attended that class also, but there was never any mention, that Snape had bullied him in this class.

    As Snape had caught Neville, Ginny and Luna stealing from the Headmasters office, he had unexpectedly imposed only a mild detention on them, rather than handing them over to the Carrows or inflicting corporal punishment personally. Actually, in the past he had imposed more severe punishments for less serious offenses.
    ____________________________

    And what is prominet regarding Voldemorts death-victims:

    The first (Moaning Myrtle) as well as the last (Snape) death-victim of Lord Voldemorts were killed by a snake rather than by AK, and both involved snakes were killed eventually by the sword of Griffindor.

  • http://tele2 Lisa Marie

    I totally agree with kamion on chronolgy and have to repeat myself:

    You wrote in Severus Snape’s timeline that Sirius’s prank takes place in the 6th year. How can this be, when Lily ends their relationship at the end of 5th year and she says some time before their “break-up”: “And you’re being really ungrateful. I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there-”?
    I think that prank happened some time during 5th year (BEFORE the OWLs).

  • JJB

    I’d love to see Snape’s final words listed on his page, “Look – at – me.” His last wish was to look into Lily’s eyes even if they were in the face of his worst enemy, James Potter and called by the name of Harry.

  • John

    Great work guys!

  • Taj

    I’m sorry to point out a mistake (when it seems like that’s the only thing people are doing here), BUT on Snape’s profile (right next to the drawing of him looking at his Dark Mark), it says “As they reached majority” when I think it should read “maturity.” Hope that helps! Everything’s great!

  • Taj

    And I think the same mistake I mentioned above can be found below the last picture of Snape on that page. “…Harry once he reached his majority.”

  • http://www.justsmashing.co.uk/slytherykin slytherykin

    Marco -
    ah, but I have a back-up plan with that! By that point Snape’s taken the Unbreakable Vow and knows that there isn’t much time to waste, however things turn out, and Neville has proved that he’s “worthy” through the battle at the Ministry at the end of OotP – that he is an excellent member of Dumbledore’s Army and can help with what Lily’s son needs to do. By the time of Deathly Hallows that has become even more of an issue.

    Of course, I adore both characters so I’m probably just trying to find deeper things in it rather than Neville being bad at something and Snape picking on him because of it!

  • Reader2

    Lisa,

    You have a point on the Diadem subject, but with the scar: “when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield”, it still sounds like Lily’ death was a needed ingredient in Hocrux-making.

    A new issue, I have already sent a message to lexicon, summing up my own observations about Death Eaters, and pointing out the ranks existing among them, but I still can not keep from pointing out the term “Dark Circle”, which is still not mentioned on Lexicon.

    Dark Circle is the elite among Death Eaters which included all those who have the Dark Mark.

    The term “Dark Circle” was used only two or three time through out the books, but the Circle itself made a proper entrance in GoF.

    I think you might want to start specifing certain characters (including Snape) as not just Death Eaters, but members of the Dark Circle.

  • Princess

    Taj, Majority is the correct term, it means ‘of age’ ie 17. Maturity is not a term you can apply to a chronological age.

  • Cherry

    Oryx and Lisa: When Trelawney tells Harry that it was Snape who was listening at the door in HBP25 she says Snape himself was seeking a job at that time. So I think what you wrote was fine Lisa.

    Oryx – You have a point about Snape getting access to D’s office before becoming headmaster – although McGonagall was deputy headmistress at that time and would not have been at all happy to find Snape there!!

  • Cherry

    Quote from Snape’s page: ‘The Snape household on Spinner’s End in an industrial part of northern England’. I don’t think it is canon that Spinner’s End is in Northern England although I agree that it is the probable location. There is even a Lexicon essay on the subject ‘Where is Spinner’s End?’ by Claire M. Jordan.

  • Marco

    Cherry,

    For the search of Spinners End I like to recommend the HP http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk A possible location might be alongside the Huddersfield Narrow Canal, maybe Woodend Mill in Mossley/Greater Manchester. But there are some more mills alongside that canal.

    The Huddersfield Narrow Canal was closed in the mid 40s and filled in at some points. This explains the smell of the water, although the industry had died out, since the polluted water couldn´t escape. It was restored in the late 90s and re-opened in 2001.

  • JJB

    I love the idea that an underlying motive for Snape to treat Neville as he does was his resentment that Neville’s not being chosen resulted in Lily’s death. This could well play a part even if it’s not the only reason.

    It occurred to me that another reason Snape treated Neville—and even Harry—so badly was to maintain his cover as a DE in the event of Voldemort’s return. Drako must have mentioned these instances to his father with delight who could then testify to Voldemort that Snape never treated either one of them well if he had the chance to treat them ill. Neville could have come in for his share of the ill treatment just in case Voldemort returned with resentment about the other boy or a plan to take him out too. Snape’s bad treatment of Neville as a special target began to slack off as soon as Voldemort returned and Snape could ascertain his plans regarding the other boy the prophesy could have meant.

    I’ve always thought it disturbing that Snape was allowed to treat Neville so badly that he was the thing Neville feared most. It seemed Hogwarts was the Nietzsche school of magic—that which does not kill me makes me stronger. Still, allowing students to be abused in the furtherance of any plan didn’t seem very Dumbledorish to me—unless it was “for the greater good”?

  • JJB

    Question: on Luna’s page, the quote at the bottom, “wit without measure…”, is that the British phrasing? I’ve never read the British version of DH so I really don’t know.

  • http://myspace.com/noblebirthdescending Alison aka NobleBirth Descending

    This is a HUGE amount to update in such a short period of time! You are awesome! Thanks for all you do!

  • Bandersnatch

    Reader2 (or anyone else):

    Is the phrase “Dark Circle” (with that capitalization) actually used anywhere in the series? Can you give a chapter and page number? I don’t remember ever coming across the phrase as a proper noun (but I’ve been wrong before).

  • Reader2

    I am not sure about capitalization, and I do not have a book by me, but I do remember the term.
    Look up the scene when the trio is captured by Snatchers.
    It says: “only the members of the dark circle were allowed to wear the mark”.

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Something to think about RE: Neville and Snape. If that was the case, how do you account for his relatively light treatment of Pettigrew? Pettigrew was the one who told Voldie where the Potters were, after all. If I were Snape, I would have slipped him something in his tea one afternoon. I don’t think Voldie would have complained.

  • Lexicon Lisa

    P.S. I am concentrating an another HUGE update and should be able to get researching all your suggestions by this weekend. It’s a little disheartening to have mostly complaints after weeks of work, but where else but the ‘net would you get such diligent proof-readers!!!

  • Reader2

    Lisa,

    We all love your pages and appreciate your hard work.

    I know I do plenty of nit-picking, but it’s just because I am cumpulsive.

    This site happens to be a good place to let it out.

    Please, just keep it up and don’t let our vinings get to you.

    By the way, do you really think that Snape’s treatment of Petegrew was light?

    It seemed like he received a good share of insults and humiliation.

    As for slipping something into his tea, I think Voldemort WOULD complain.
    He might have a poor sence of gratitude, but Pettegrew did raise him from the dead.

    It would not be good for Voldemort’s image if the people who help him stay alive kept dropping dead.

  • hpboy13

    LUNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!! Tahnk you Lisa, you totally just made my day!! *runs up and gives Lisa a huge hug that leaves her gasping for breath*
    Anyway, since I’m such a huge fan of Luna, I found some stuff to nitpick on Luna’s page: you mention where she lives twice and at the quote at the end it’s supposed to be “wit BEYOND measure” not “wit WITHOUT measure”. The Voldemort and Snaper entries also made for excellent reading! Absolutely AWESOME job!!!

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Hmmm, I do think he treated Pettigrew lightly, compared to how he treated Neville, especially considering the disparity in their ages.

    In some ways, Neville is the corollary to Hermione as far as blood superiority is concerned. If you believe that purebloods are the wizards that should rule the world and you meet Hermione (Muggle-born) and Neville (pureblood) their first year at Hogwarts, they would both blow your theory to smithereens.

    Or you can think of it this way, Neville was, in a way, what Snape wanted when he was in Hogwarts: to fit in with the coolest kids in the school on your own terms. Nothing Snape could do could tarnish him.

    Snape is so complex, slytherykin’s ideas and mine are probably all part of the same cauldron that is our Severus.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    and thanks hpboy13 =) I think you broke a rib.

  • Remi

    Nice job, Lisa!
    The only thing I can see missing is the fact that Snape’s patronus was a reflection of his continued love for Lily.

  • Oryx

    Snape insulted Pettigrew and caused him unnecessary pain quite deliberately, but he couldn’t cause him serious damage because Voldemort sent Pettigrew to spy on Snape, so such action would have harmed Snape’s position with Voldemort.

  • Marco

    Cherry,

    I have just read your comment about Snape, as he entered the Headmasters Office, before he was actually appointed headmaster. It would have been surely no big deal for a wizard like Snape to sneak into Hogwarts. At that point it was summer holiday, Hogwarts was barely occupied, maybe Hagrid and Filch were arround.

    And I think, that Snape began teaching in Hogwarts at 1. September 1981, since he was direct successor of Prof. Slughorn, who went in retirement then, and it would have been unusual, if Slughorn retired after a few months of a new term rather than at the end of term.

  • Reader2

    Snape wouldn’t be the first one to sneack into headmaster office without an official permission.
    Remember Harry?
    On the other hand, Unbridge could not enter the office even after she became a headmistress.
    I guess Hogwarts simply desides who is allowed to enter for itself?

  • Bandersnatch

    @Reader2:
    Re: “Dark Circle.”

    I found the reference you were thinking of, which does not, in fact, contain the term “Dark Circle” or “dark circle.”

    “Harry thought he knew why Greyback was not calling Voldemort. The werewolf might be allowed to wear Death Eater robes when they wanted to use him, but only Voldemort’s inner circle were branded with the Dark Mark: Greyback had not been granted this highest honor.”
    –DH23, p. 453 US

    I cannot recall an instance of the phrase “Dark Circle” or “dark circle” in the series, which is probably why the Lexicon doesn’t use it as a label. But you do have “inner circle,” a common phrase in the halls of power, which I also recall being used elsewhere as well. (Can’t remember the exact quote, but someone once said something about someone else being “right up there in You-Know-Who’s inner circle.”)

    Since
    (a) the DEs who were summoned to the graveyard in GoF were all wearing the Dark Mark, and
    (b) only members of LV’s inner circle wear the Dark Mark, it follows that
    (c) those who came to the graveyard were his inner circle.
    So I agree with you that there are hierarchies in the Death Eater ranks, and that those in the graveyard with the Marks on their arms were his closest helpers and most trusted servants (as much as Tom Riddle could trust anyone, that is).

  • Reader2

    Bandersnatch,
    Thank you for looking it up.

    The other reference to the “inner circle” had to do with Lucius Malfoy.
    I remember that much, but I am not sure whether it was in the PS or CoS.

    May be the term “dark circle” was just figment of my imagination, but a circle of elite among Death Eaters defenitely exists, and by now we know enough Death Eaters to properly sort them as those who belong to the “circle” and those who don’t.

  • Oryx

    I’d say those not in the ‘inner circle’ are non-human and part-human allies such as Fenrir or giants, as well as Imperius victims like Stan Shunpike and Thicknesse.

  • JJB

    Reader2,

    Circles… Sorry but the term dark circkle never appears in any of the seven books—I’ve checked—but I like the term and wish it had been used.

    Talk of Voldemort’s “inner circle” occurred in CS3 when the Weasleys rescued Harry from his room and talked for the first time of Lucius Malfoy. Harry used the term in PA11 as the trio discussed what they had overheard Fudge say in the Three Broomsticks and were once again speaking of Lucius.

    The word “circle” is used most frequently in the whole series in the graveyard of LV’s rebirth. The only interesting modifier is “silent” circle but otherwise it’s merely a circle.

  • Reader2

    OK, I give in there is now Dark Circle, I was just seeing things.

    But there is definitely a circle, and there is defenitely a distinction between those who are in the circle and those who are not.

  • StephRainey

    I’m sure someone has noticed this before, but I can’t seem to find anything on it. Harry and Voldemort have similarities (orphans, half-blood, phoenix feather wand cores) as well as polar opposite differences (fear/acceptance of death, ability/inability to love). I recalled one more thing while reading about their wands (holly vs. yew-polar opposites, again). Their birthdays are exactly 6 months apart: Harry being midsummer and Voldemort midwinter. I guess it’s just one more thing to ponder.

  • Bandersnatch

    Actually, StephRainey, Harry’s and Riddle’s birthdays are not six months apart, they are five (or seven, depending on where you start). Six months from Dec. 31 would be June 30. I made the same mistake myself some time ago.

    Why are holly and yew polar opposites? I seem to recall something about this on Jo’s site, but I don’t remember exactly.

  • Bandersnatch

    Did I actually write June 31? I meant June 30, of course. :)

  • http://rule?? karshien

    thanx for this page, you really dedicated your time into making this page more detaile, keep going….

    MOre POwer to LEXICON

  • http://rule?? jenny

    HEy there HP fans!!! Its really good to know that i’m not the only one to be such a great fan, hope you stay on supporting HP, ..

  • RCT

    The timeline for Voldemort is incorrect, he murdered his parents in the Summer of ’43.

  • aillinne

    I cannot agree with You on Voldemorts timeline.

    Dumbledore states in “A Sluggish Memory” in HBP that: “All he (Voldemort) had to go on upon was the single name ‘Marvolo,’ which he knew from those who ran the orphanage had been his mother’s father’s name. Finally, after painstaking research, through old books of Wizarding families, he discovered the existence of Slytherin’s surviving line. In the summer of his sixteenth year, he left the orphanage to which he returned annually and set off to find his Gaunt relatives.”

    So in “the summer of his sixteenth year” Voldy did NOT know for sure that his father was a Muggle. He only knew about Gaunts, that they were his family, and he went to Morfin, to Little Hangleton and THEN Morfin told him little family story:

    - “I thought you was that Muggle,” whispered Morfin. “You look mighty like thatMuggle.”
    – “What Muggle?” said Riddle sharply.
    – “That Muggle what my sister took a fancy to, that Muggle what lives in the big house over the way,” said Morfin, and he spat unexpectedly upon the floor between them.
    - “You look right like him. Riddle. But he’s older now, in ‘e? He’s older’n you, now I think on it. …” (alas, “A Sluggish Memory”)

    It’s clear (at least for me) that Riddle didn’t know these facts before meeting Morfin and therefore he could not provided Dippet with this information (father Muggle, mother witch) on 13.06.1943, if You insist that it was a month (or so) later, when he visited Little Hangleton to find Morfin and became full aware of his heritage.
    It’s very illogical for me.

    And “In the summer of his sixteenth year (…)” DOESN’T mean, that he was sixteen years old, BUT fifteen and a half. You ask why? That’s very simple: we keep saying, ex.: “The WWII happened in twentieth century.” and it DOESN’T mean it happened in years 2039-2045, but in 1939-1945. We say: “The Reformation was in sixteenth
    century” and it DOESN’T mean year 1617, but 1517. The same with Riddle – he was fifteen and a half in summer of his sixteenth year, that’s summer 1942. He became sixteen years old on 31.12.1942, which means he was then in his seventeenth year.

    So the timeline, IMO, looks like that:

    01.09.1938 – ??.06.1939 – first year
    01.09.1939 – ??.06.1940 – second year
    01.09.1940 – ??.06.1941 – third year
    01.09.1941 – ??.06.1942 – fourth year
    (July or August 1942, after Voldemort’s fourth year – learning his true heritage from Morfin; death of the Riddle family)
    01.09.1942 – ??.06.1943 – fifth year
    (some time before 13.06.1943 – opening the Chamber of Secrets and death of Myrtle; 13.06.1943 – conversation with Dippet; here Tom says:
    “Yes, sir,” said Riddle, reddening slightly.
    “You are Muggle-born?”
    “Half-blood, sir,” said Riddle. “Muggle father, witch mother.” )
    01.09.1943 – ??.06.1944 – sixth year
    01.09.1944 – ??.06.1945 – seventh year

    I know you’re keeping to delete posts like that, so I owled You too. I hope it will come.

  • aillinne

    I cannot agree with You on Voldemorts timeline. You said:

    Dumbledore states in “A Sluggish Memory” in HBP that: “All he(Voldemort) had to go on upon was the single name ‘Marvolo,’ which he knew from those who ran the orphanage had been his mother’s father’s name. Finally, after painstaking research, through old books of Wizarding families, he discovered the existence of Slytherin’s surviving line. In the summer of his sixteenth year, he left the orphanage to which he returned annually and set off to find his Gaunt relatives.”

    So in “the summer of his sixteenth year” Voldy did NOT know for sure that his father was a Muggle. He only knew about Gaunts, that they were his family, and he went to Morfin, to Little Hangleton and THEN Morfin told him little family story:

    - “I thought you was that Muggle,” whispered Morfin. “You look mighty like that Muggle.”
    – “What Muggle?” said Riddle sharply.
    – “That Muggle what my sister took a fancy to, that Muggle what lives in the big house over the way,” said Morfin, and he spat unexpectedly upon the floor between them.
    - “You look right like him. Riddle. But he’s older now, in ‘e? He’s older’n you, now I think on it. …” (alas, “A Sluggish Memory”)

    It’s clear (at least for me) that Riddle didn’t know these facts before meeting Morfin and therefore he could not provided Dippet with this information (father Muggle, mother witch) on 13.06.1943, if You insist that it was a month (or so) later, when he visited Little Hangleton to find Morfin and became full aware of his heritage.
    It’s very illogical for me.

  • Oryx

    I’m not sure Riddle did not know his father was a Muggle when he met Morfin. He obviously knew no Riddle had ever attended Hogwarts before him. Also, when he talked to Slughorn Merrythought was about to retire, and she retired in the summer of 1945. In GOF it says the Riddles were killed 50 years before the murder of Bryce, which was in 1994. So the evidence points to various dates. I wish Rowling made her mind up.

  • Marco

    That Voldemort knew, that no Riddle before him had ever attended Hogwarts, does not neccessarily mean, that he made immediately the deduction, that his father was a muggle. You know, that attending Hogwarts was not compulsory for british young wizard at that time.

    Another evidence for the theory of allinne is, that Riddle was by no means the eldest boy of the group of teenagers, who were in Slughorns office, as Riddle asked him about the Horcruxes. And at that time he had already obtained the ring. (HBP23) And it´s surely easier to tell a 5th year from a 7th year than a 6th year from a 7th year, and it was never mentioned, that Riddle looked particularly young for his age, when young.

    But the amount of magic, Riddle could perform at that age, is astonishing and I´m asking myself, who had taught it him. Before release of DH, my theory was Grindelwald, but that can be ruled out now. Now I guess, that Riddle had hung arround much in Knockturn alley during holiday and learned stuff there, what was never taught in Hogwarts.

  • Darcy

    Great job guys,excellent work.

  • aillinne

    Oryx
    How do You know Merrythought retired in 1945? There’s no date in text.

  • Jinx

    In her internet interview JKR said that Voldemort used Myrtle’s death to create the diary horacrux, Tom Riddle Sr’s death to create the ring horacrux, and Hepzibah’s death to create the cup horacrux. Now in HBP page 439 in the US edition, after Dumbledore showed Harry Hokey’s memory he said “Voldemort had committed another murder; whether it was the first since he killed the Riddles, I do not know, but I think it was.”

    This would mean that Myrtle was killed prior to the Riddles and she was killed in June of 1943. This also means that the Riddles were killed in the summer of 1943 or 1944. Voldemort was not in his 7th year when he asked Slughorn about Horacruxes, so he must have killed the Riddles in the summer of 1943.

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