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Character page progress

I have begun a sweep of the character pages, but it is going slowly because it is so complicated. First, old style pages need to be switched to the new design, then double-checked for Book 7, all the old [Y-whatever] dates have to be removed, and then I need to check the page against the floods of new canon we’ve received since the last book came out. In some cases, the old page has details that once seemed pertinent or mysterious, but don’t anymore now that we know the whole story (Neville’s toad Trevor comes to mind), so most of the old entries are being re-written. Whew.

On the A-Z pages, I am re-indexing them with the names on the “No surname” page because it seems silly now to separate them. Why should people have to think about whether it is a first name or not? Eventually the “No surname” page will go away entirely. Can anyone find the new names I added?

So far I have finished the A, B and C pages. I work on them when I get home from my job and am averaging 2 nights for one letter of the alphabet. I know we keep saying this but please be patient. I know I lost about two months when it became too painful to think about Potter stuff.

I have some questions for you: Over the years I have struggled with what to call the two types of pages we have for important characters. One kind of page [sample] was meant for quick reference (though in Harry’s case, that’s a joke). The other kind of page is a more leisurely read, written in a narrative style [sample]. How do you use the two types of pages? Which do you think of as the “Main” page? What would you call them? I am thinking, for example of dropping the “Quick lists” and Quick facts” headings and using simply “Lists” instead. So it would be “Harry James Potter: Lists.” But what to call the other type? Should it just be titled “Harry James Potter” with no qualifyer? I don’t want to use “Essay” because that would be confused with our essay section and “Narrative” has always seemed clunky to me. Does “Profile” work for you?

P.S. How come people hardly ever draw Hannah Abbott? I know she started out as kind of a whiner, but come on! I’m looking for a portrait that shows what Neville loved in her (and sticks to canon, of course).

Update #1: I am mostly finished through “L” now, and all of the “No surname” entries have been moved over, so I have deactivated that page. As I go, I am taking extra pains to differentiate staff commentary with canon information through the use of italics. There are still a few pages that need such careful work that I am putting them off for the time being: the Death Eater page is a good example. Basically if you don’t see the “Deathly Hallows” triangle, I am not finished with that page yet. I just lost all my work on the Macmillan page (Dreamweaver doesn’t like Vista), so I guess I will end here for the night.

Update #2 (Jan. 21): Well most of my 150 character pages have been updated. Narcissa now has her own page, and the pages for Rita Skeeter, the Weasley family, Molly Weasley, and Ron Weasley have been substantially revised.

Still on my list to work on: Dobby, Death Eaters, Harry, Snape, Sirius, Muggle people, the Potter family, the Beings list, the book quotes and the character timelines. Whew. I also edit the “What Happened the Night Harry’s Parents were killed” page and that will need to be re-worked because of the revelations in the PotterCast interviews. Then, I want to work in a more systematic way on name derivations and do a better job of linking to our excellent essays. This stage of the work will go more slowly — I have 50+ roses to prune and/or re-pot in the next 2 weeks, and important work over at Accio Quote to do.

My favorite bit? It is still the profile I wrote for Neville.

P.S. Thanks for all the great comments on labeling. I have decided to keep “Profile” as the label for the narrative portions, and begin moving to “Data” (“Lord Voldemort: Data”) for the raw info sections.

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  • Xammer

    Excellent work! The regular updates are back!

    W00t First post

  • http://www.accio-quote.org meann

    Personally, I use the “Quick Lists” more often than the narrative because it’s easier to spot facts on the lists rather than within a paragraph. But that probably depends on what you are doing at the time you’re consulting the Lexicon. I would presume, though, that most people use the Lex as a quick-guide, and thus the lists would make more sense to have as the “main page”. But that’s just me. :D “Profile” is a good term, I think. ;)

  • Katty

    I use the list-pages as often as the “profile”-pages, I consider the list-pages as an additive to the profiles. E.g.: the page with the u-characters, as Umbridge, is usefull to read when you want to know who’s name is beginning with this letter, and the link to the profile-page of Umbridge permits me to focus on details. The page about the wands is also usefull, because you can read all the info about wands, and start your research to the other pages. The links and crosslinks are the element that makes this website so usefull, I never get lost in the info, because the abc is the backbone, and all the subpages are linked to it.

  • JK McGonagall

    I tend to use both of them. When I want info fast, I go to the Quick Lists to find it. I think calling it a Profile would be good. I tend to think of the other entry as a short biography of the person, or an encyclopedia entry of them. Maybe you could call them Harry Potter Profile (for the lists) and Harry Potter Biography or Bio (for the entry). Just a thought.

  • JK McGonagall

    elleA3000 or ellA3000 (not sure of the spelling) in Deviant Art has a picture of Neville and Hannah together. Not to detailed but kind of cute.

  • Kaz

    You could always call them them both profiles and have the “Long Version” and the “Short Version”! At least you wouldn’t get confused between which was which :-) I use both – the long version/profile when I’m having a browse or looking for ideas for riddles etc, and the short version/Quick Facts when I’m looking for specific details, like a quote or middle name, that I can follow the link too.

    Good to hear you’re getting into things again – I really hope you’re still enjoying the work, it’s very much appreciated!

  • Ajoxy

    What’s wrong with the dates? Everything is going to be changed because JK wrote that Fred died in 1997 and not 1998. It can just be a simple mistake!

    And I missed something – Neville and Hannah?

  • http://www.encyclopedie-hp.org/ Quentin

    I might be able to help you for the Hannah Abbott picture. A Friend of mine made this one at my request. It’s pretty good, and better than nothing, and it sticks to canon. What do you think?…

    http://www.encyclopedie-hp.org/wizards/abbott.php
    http://www.encyclopedie-hp.org/images/pf/hannah-pf.jpg
    http://www.encyclopedie-hp.org/images/pf/hannah_big1.jpg

  • Atb

    About how to name the pages: maybe call the first ‘facts’ and the other ‘biography?

  • selia

    I use the “Quick Lists” more often too, it’s great when one wants to chcek some details. And I always think about the narrative page as “personal stories” or just “stories”.

  • ktty

    Lisa I found a typo on the a-page, I’m afraid. Concerning Agrippa, you wrote wixzardingcard or something, wizard is the part of the word where you can find the typo. Thanks for the marvellous updates!

  • http://acioquote.org jules

    there is still some doubling up

    amycus and alecto are still listed under A and ‘big blond’ under B. Big blond’s name was confirmed in DH as Thorfinn Rowle. do we need more than one entry fore charachters in the main character index?

  • http://acioquote.org jules

    Oh! and Yaxley is the brutal-faced Death Eater, according to wikipedia, but since they regurgitate alot of the lexicon, they may be right in saying that yaxley is the brutle faced death eater mentioned in HBP

  • JK McGonagall

    Here is the link to the pic of Hannah and Neville on Deviant Art. It is cute.
    http://ellea3000.deviantart.com/art/DH-Neville-and-Hannah-67834536

  • Domoor

    Hi Lisa, in the entry for Bilius you have spelled Grim with two m’s.

    BTW “Profile” sounds good to me.

  • JK McGonagall
  • JK McGonagall

    Here is another really cute Hannah Abbott pic called Sweetly Hannah. Here is the link to it.

    http://www.artisticalley.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2082&cat=722

  • Kenni

    I really like the quick lists. It is much better organized and doesnt seem as much of a read.

  • Taj

    I think of the quick references as the main page, but I enjoy the profile/biography much more.

  • jensenly

    I use the Quick List almost exclusively.

    Don’t worry, Lisa. Take your time, and we appreciate your updates whenever they appear.

  • John

    I use the quick list too. The narritive when I need to make sure something I think is correct is correct.

  • ascatal

    i usually use the quick list more than the other

  • Mizu

    I use the list more often and think of it as the main page, though I like the name quick facts better.

  • Jodie

    what you consider the quick reference I consider the “BIO” and main page but the narrative I read just for fun.

  • roonwit

    Jules: I doubt brutal-face from HBP is the blunt-featured Yaxley from DH because brutal-face was captured by Harry on the tower, which would make it incredibly difficult to mastermind Voldemort’s take over of the Ministry because even after being broken out of Azkaban he would be a known criminal and thus in constant danger of being recognized, recaptured and sent back. I think it more likely that Yaxley has a clean record, possibly a new death eater, or one who wasn’t suspected during the first war, and has been working close to or within the Ministry though HBP and maybe even OotP, and Voldemort wouldn’t risk his link to the Ministry in the Hogwarts mission where he might be recognized, and thus destroy months or even years of carefully establishing trust amongst Ministry staff and getting ready to subvert it.

  • Sarah

    I use the “quick facts” one when I am looking for information or confirmation of a fact and the narrative one when I just want to read about people (etc.) in the wonderful world of Harry Potter. I think “biography” is a good name for the narrative page and “facts” or “quick facts” is fine for the list page.

  • Clock_maker

    I use quick facts the most. But i do enjoy reading the long version aswell. I think profile (or biography) would be a good name for the long one.

  • Grace has Victory

    I like the “sweetly Hannah” picture. Please note that, to a British writer, “pigtails” means “plaits” (braids), not pony tails!

    Yaxley is not a new character in DH: he is mentioned in HBP. But I agree with the Lexicon’s previous summary that the “big blond” is almost certainly Thorfinn Rowle. “Thorfinn” is a Viking name, and a “big blond” fits the Viking stereotype. Whether this is also the “brutal-faced” one is not clear.

  • Reader2

    Grace has Victory,

    It is VERY clear that “big blonde” and “brutal-face” were NOT the same person.

    In Ron’s account, the “big blonde” was the only Death Eater guarding the stairs when others were on top of the astronomy tower.

    At the same time, Harry saw the “brutal-face” on top of the tower with the others, he also heard another Death Eater scream from the stairway.

    Throffin wasn’t in two places at once, was he?

    I’d like to point out a couple of characters missing from the list:
    Calhas (Mopsus’ rival) and Boris the Bewildered, whose statue stand by prefect bathroom.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org SiriusBlack

    I think you should drop the quick lists and quick facts and just make a profile for everyone.

  • x-caitlin-x

    I use both equally. When I’m checking just one or two facts for a story or to prove someone wrong I go straight to the lists. But I find the narrative page helps to put things in context, and gives more of an overview of the person that you just don’t get with the other. I’d be very disappointed if either one of the sets of pages was deleted from the website. As for names, it really doesn’t bother me that the facts page has the “Quick Facts” and “Quick Lists” headlines. Obviously, for some characters they aren’t quick anymore, as you say, but they are still much quicker than the main page for each character, and I feel the headlines fit what’s there. For the main page, I think “Profile” works. I consider the profile page to be the main one, since lists always come after narrative in my mind! You have the long description, and then if you want to clarify you’ve got the facts listed out in a more accessible way afterwards.

  • Ravenclaw1028

    I use the “quick fact” page alot when im reading and i want to check up something to make sure im getting it right. But, when i have some free time, i LOVE to read the narrative to just see what the lexicon says about my favortie people. :]

  • Ravenclaw1028

    ohh,
    and profile sounds really good.
    as a name

  • Caleb

    I use the quick lists more so, because I like the layout better than reading the paragraphs, but that’s just because when I do my quick potter research (which is why I use the Lexicon, ’cause you guys are great for the obsessed Potter fan). Also, I agree with JK McGonagall’s idea: “Maybe you could call them Harry Potter Profile (for the lists) and Harry Potter Biography or Bio (for the entry).”

  • Deadeye-Davi

    I’ve always liked the term “dossier”, meaning: a collection of documents or facts relating to a given subject.

    Maybe the quick facts can be called profiles and the very detailed overviews can be called dossiers.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    I am so grateful for the depth of the feedback here.

    I’m not trying to end the conversation, but I just wanted to jump in and say to x-caitlin-x that both are permanent parts of the Lexicon (we won’t be deleting either one), and to SiriusBlack that some of the pages are so huge when combined that readers who have slow internet connections will find the load time interminable. For some characters, I simply have to break the information up.

  • Rhona

    The quick list, is the one I use the most. But the other one is helpfull too. You could call it a biogrophy or a profile. I love them both

  • christina

    i like the second sample more but the first one is definately more handy

  • Elizabeth

    Yeah, profile would be nice!

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org SiriusBlack

    actually, i think you should combine them, and have quick facts at the top, then the biography/written one at the bottom to make a profile

  • Naco

    2rd part of the studio visit report now! we want the tree!

  • Taj

    Roonwit, Harry mentions remembering Yaxley in DH as one of the Death Eaters atop the tower at Dumbledore’s death. As we already know there were Fenrir, Amycus, and Alecto, that means that the brutal-faced Death Eater is definitely Yaxley.

  • Aubry

    I also like to use the “Quick Refernce” because I like to see details like Birthday, Family, etc.
    But I also like the “Narrative Style” because it has a lot of information about them, kinda like a mini story type thing. So, whatever you decide, as long as it has the good details and stuff! Keep doing a good job!

  • Aubry

    I also agree with what SiriusBlack says, about combining the two…

    And Naco, finally someone besides me is asking for the updated Black Family Tree! But it’s the 3rd, not 2nd, that we need.

    :]

  • roonwit

    Taj: Okay, but I still think it is rather strange that someone who was obviously captured and presumably convicted would be able to infiltrate the Ministry so successfully when everyone would know he was a death eater.

  • DA Jones

    Roonwit

    Remember the supposed error near the end in HBP when Scrimegour says the Death Eater was ‘stunned’ when we know Harry used Pet.Totalus.

    Perhaps the ministries investigators who were controled by Voldemort. stunned someone and switched them with Yaxley before old Scim showed up. In other words they covered up for Yaxley. That would be a way around that trap.

  • hpboy13

    Yay, love the updates!! Though I agree, I really want to see the Black family tree. Anyway, as to why there are no pics of Hannah – because it’s Luna who should be drawn alongside Neville (nope, I ain’t letting that one go)

  • Reader2

    Did anyone ever consider drawing a Reparo version of the Black Famliy Tree, filling in the birned out names and adding in other relations we know, extendin the Weasley and Malfoy branches.

    Wikipedia does have something like that, but they seem to have lost track of the cannon.

    For example they’ve listed Billius as Arthur’s brother.

    I always wanted that theory proven, but DH had shut it down. From Ron’s description Billius sounded way too old to be Arthur’s brother.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Well I have a confession. I haven’t done the revised Black Family Tree because I haven’t purchased the DVD yet. I will go hunting online tomorrow to see if someone has screenshots up.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org Steve

    The information we have on the family tree is correct. On the set, the tree extends onto three walls. The wall with the door leading to the staircase — the one Harry comes through at the beginning of the scene — is the left hand side of the tree. All the information we have here is from the right side. Because of the doors etc, there are very few actual names on the left side, just a lot of fancy branches and the like.

    From everything I could tell, the information Rowling provided was used for the right side. Where a name or two was required for the left side, the set people just made stuff up. I would guess that the names are variations on the names of crew members. I saw a lot of that sort of thing on the set, where the names of real people working on the film were used. I do have a few of those names and I’ll try to post them, but they are clearly not of Rowling’s invention and cannot be considered even remotely canon. Most of the detail on the film sets is not canon, remember. All the names of books and authors and details on the props and on the Daily Prophets are just invented by the art or properties departments.

    Steve

  • Cissy

    I use the quick facts first and from there tend to go read the more profound profile-section. Foe me that has worked fine.

  • Naco

    And this is the reason you never published the third and “extent” report, SVA, despite you promised it?

    Ha.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org Steve

    Naco, this has nothing to do with the third set report. I was simply answering the question about the family tree. If I decide to do a third set report, it will be sometime this spring. There are too many other projects right now that need attention. If you’re so concerned, you might notice that some other sites, whose representatives were there at the same time I was, never published any reports at all.

    Steve

  • Naco

    SVA (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/lex-op-set-teaser2.html) : “I’ll be writing a full report to coincide with the release of the film in July”.

    We never saw it. SVA had to be busy with the companion book…

  • Aubry

    O darn….

    I thought that it had previous generations before Phineas Nigellus. I love the Black Family. I wish we also had family trees like that for other Wizarding families as well.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    Hey for the interested, I have created and uploaded a family tree for the World of Harry Potter here:

    http://familytrees.genopro.com/aislingyngaio/harrypotter/

    It is as correct as I have made it, though there are absences of minor characters. Feedback is always welcome. ^_^

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    What a brilliant idea, aislingyngaio! I will have fun playing with this!

  • selia

    Maybe you could add to Neville’s page that he married Hannah, it mentions only that he works as a professor

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    I must have pixies in my machine. I could have sworn I did that already!

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org SiriusBlack

    do you really get free harry potter books from that ad?

  • selia

    Ms Bunker, Professor Longbottom sends his best and says that while he could forgive that you have not done your homework properly, poor excuses are not acceptable. Once again and it`s detention

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Detention, ugh. Why am I always the one to take the Christmas decorations down?

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    what ad, SiriusBlack?

  • Snape’s Mistress

    I prefer the non-narrative character page. I use the lexicon to check facts, not to read essays, so the fact file sheet style suits me better.

  • JJB

    Someone from France noted Dominique is for both males and females; JKR noted in the Bloomsbury chat (I think) that Victoire is Bill and Fleur’s eldest daughter or elder of their daughters or something like. Sorry for the lack of specificity, I’ve been vegging out over the holidays and some brain cells aren’t firing right yet. Anyway, if Bill and Fleur have more than one daughter then Dominique must be a girl.

  • JJB

    Someone from France noted Dominique is for both males and females; JKR noted in the Bloomsbury chat (I think) that Victoire is Bill and Fleur’s eldest daughter or elder of their daughters or something like that. Sorry for the lack of specificity, I’ve been vegging out over the holidays and some brain cells aren’t firing right yet. Anyway, if Bill and Fleur have more than one daughter then Dominique must be a girl.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    OMG i just thought of something:
    Was Snape bullying Neville because, in addition to him being the easiest person to bully, he also resented Neville for not being chosen by Voldy instead of Harry which resulted in Lily being killed?

  • Bandersnatch

    Good catch, JJB! It wasn’t the Bloomsbury Chat, it was from the 29 July Dateline interview with Meredith Vieira.

    http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2007/0729-dateline-vieira.html

    VO: In fact, she says Professor Lupin’s now-orphaned son Teddy is one of the main reasons she wanted to write the epilogue.

    JKR: To hear that Teddy Lupin — Lupin’s son is obviously okay. That he has an ongoing relationship with Harry and that he’s– he must be quite happy and he’s got a very good-looking girlfriend because the person that he’s kissing in the epilogue is Bill and Fleur’s eldest daughter.

    So, as JJB said, it seems that Dominique is a girl, since otherwise Victoire would just be her parents’ eldest child, not their eldest daughter.

  • Reader2

    I have a couple suggestions (as usual).

    Please take a look at the entry for Dillis Derwent, you seem to have her terms of service as a healer listed as her lifespan. Makes it look like she rose from the grave to become the heamistress.

    Also, you seem to have forgoten all about the DP Editorial. Half of the characters listed there are still not on the master list.

    Although, if you simply don’t want to list names like “Rufus Fudge” or “Cormac McLeoud”, I don’t blame you.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Reader2, I don’t have the DP materials, Steve does, so he will have to write those entries. I got Dilys corrected. It turns out that we don’t know her birth or death dates at all, just the dates she was at St. Mungo’s and Hogwarts.

    aislingyngaio, I think that is a shrewd guess about Neville.

    And yes, good catch JJB, on Victoire!

  • Marco

    @aislingyngaio

    Most likely not! In HBP, where Snape was no longer potions teacher of Neville, was never any bullying of Neville by Snape mentioned. In DH, where corporal punishment even to the extend to the Cruciatus Curse was tolerated, Neville was able to participate in a theft in the Headmasters Office without recieving any severe punishment, after he was caught by Snape. So it´s to assume, that Snape bullied Neville just due to his bad performance in potions class and the permanent destruction of couldrons, which are not cheap.

  • Marco

    I have seen, that you have completed your “Who’s Who in the Wizarding World” by now, since there is the Hallow sign at Z.

    But I like to have a word to a few characters:

    1. Urquhart, the team captain of Slytherin in Harrys 6th year:

    Urquhart was Chaser and definitly not in team in Harrys 5th year, at least no regular player. This means most likely, that Bletchley, Pucey, Montague and Warrington were therefore no longer in Hogwarts in Harrys 6th year and therefore 2 years above Harry. It would make no sense to promote a brandnew player to captain, when there are experienced.

    2. Wilkes, the Death-Eater:

    Name of origin may be John Wilkes Booth, assassin of US-President Abraham Lincoln. And both, the Death-Eater as well as John W. Booth, were killed by law officers while resisting arrest. Alastor Moody had the reputation of not completely right in his head, and the soldier, who had shot John Wilkes Booth, was also known as a mental case.

  • Clock_maker

    In the K section of wizards and beings, the Roland Kegg Wizard card is in the Randolph Keitch section

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    @Marco: I would hazard a guess that Neville’s DA training paid off, so now he’s no worse off than anyone else in the DADA class (except Hermione, who’s smarter than anyone else in class). and since neville was stealing the sword for harry AND with two other people (ginny and luna), i hardly think snape would, at that point, when it is most crucial that potter succeeds (no matter that he looks so much like james) that it would’ve been foolhardy to torture the three most loyal ones overmuch (he sent them to hagrid instead of the carrows; in this, his promise to dumbly meant more now than his petty revenge).

  • Reader2

    I’ve pointed out a certain mistake before, but that was years ago and it’s still not corrected, so I have to point it out again.

    The entry for Harper still says that he was filling in for Vasey, while in fact he was filling in for Draco Malfoy.

    I also would like to share a couple observations on names:

    Cadmus Peverell was clearly named after a Greek hero Cadmus, the founder of Thebes.
    Cadmus defeated a giant serpent, pulled out its teeth and plented them into the ground like seeds. Out of the teeth grew his personal army of Spartoy, but Spartoy turne dout to be way out of control and ended up slaughtering each other.

    The name of Antioch Peverel might have come from Edgar Poe’s “Fout Beast in One”. In that story Antiouch is a monster king, a camelopard with a human head.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org SiriusBlack

    aislingyngaio, good point. Snape could bully him because of that.

  • selia

    Draco’s quick facts still have some pre-DH remarks, like (Org.&Aff.) Harry believes that he is a Death Eater or (App.)that he suspects that he has a Death Mark

  • JJB

    Someone else mentioned in other comments a few months ago (and probably someone else before the comment I saw) the idea that Neville was tormented by Snape because of his status as the other possible boy of the prophesy. I thought it was a great idea then and still think it could be a part of the underlying, possibly even subconscious, reason for his treatment of him. I think there is no one single reason but as many reasons as there are layers to his personality. Don’t forget that Snape is not a nice guy by Jo’s own admission. He was rude to Hermione in the very first class before she became a friend to Harry or Neville. So why might he treat Neville as he does?

    1. Snape has always lacked social skills for getting along with others.
    2. He has a reputation from day one as always favoring his own house and being mean to everyone else.
    3. Being a Slytherin, he has a natural antipathy for Griffyndors–even without hating the Marauders.
    4. Everyone likes to be liked and admired and Snape made himself popular with the Slytherins by bullying any Griffyndor and Neville was an easy mark.
    5. He needed to keep his cover as a true blue DE in tact in case of the return of LV and being meanest to the children of those who had fought LV the hardest would be most impressive to dEs.
    6. Knowing the prophesy, he couldn’t know if LV might come back and think it was a mistake to think Harry was the Chosen One and decide to take on Neville instead so he couldn’t have a history of being nice to him.
    7. Those who have been abused often become abusers themselves and choose the weak to bully—as a teacher he was in a position of power over all students and Neville was the weakest among the weak, at least initially.
    8. He viewed even the use of dark magic against others as a laugh—such as Lily’s friend Mary McDonald.
    9. He chose to be a Death Eater which meant at the core he was among one of those who was “the weak seeking protection, the ambitious seeking some shared glory, and the thuggish gravitating toward a leader who could show them more refined forms of cruelty.” HBP17.

    Snape was naturally inclined to hurt others weaker than himself as a result of his own childhood and later experiences. It is likely that a weakling like Neville would have attracted his ire with or without Harry Potter in the room. Neville’s fate as the Unchosen One could well have added fuel to the ire ;)

  • Tommy

    Dilys Derwent must have died in 1768 because you have to die while you are still headmaster for to have your portrait in the headmaster’s office… excuse me for the bad english, i’m not english

  • tandaradei

    As to those styles in your original question, how about borrowing from Encyclopedia Brittanica … calling one Macro (comprehensive essay) & one Micro (details, bulleting)?

  • Marco

    @Tommy

    This is not certain.

    Snapes portrait was not in the Headmaster’s Office in the first place, because he had abandoned his post and run away, leaving Hogwarts without anyone in charge.

    It may be possible, that a headmaster gets his portrait, when he resigns or retires officially, p.e. due to disability.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    Nah Jo specifically said that you have to die in office if your portrait makes it up there. I don’t think this includes retirement *cough*a.k.a. abdication*cough*.

  • Phil

    Actually, I’m pretty sure she just said you just have to be dead, not die in office (and have been a worthy headmaster, hence the debate over Snape).

    One thing I’ve noticed, on the Lord Voldemort entry under V, you’ve given his deathdate and year of birth but not his known birthdate (Dec 31st).

  • hpboy13

    Yay, I love all the character updates! This is my fave seciton, it’s great to see it being updated. Keep up the awesome work!

  • KCW

    Happy Birthday Severus Snape!!!

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Responding to the discussion of Snape and Neville: JJB, good points, and I really like your term the “unchosen.”

    We know Snape tried to convince Voldemort to spare Lily (but not James or Harry). It isn’t inconceivable that he didn’t first try to convince the Dark Lord that pureblood Neville was the likelier threat. Anyway, that was my first thought when I read aislingyngaio’s idea. Marco, I think we don’t know enough about Snape’s tenure as headmaster. There are strong clues that Dumbledore wanted Snape there in the advent of a DE takeover of the Ministry to protect the children and that Snape knew it was expected of him. I suspect he continued to walk the tightrope between seeming to be a hardline DE (plus his own proclivities, as JJB pointed out) and trying to make sure kids weren’t physically harmed. And Neville was different too, as aislingyngaio pointed out.

    Marco, we know there are problems with Urquhart. I think there is a note there that acknowledges the situation. There is one other Slytherin player who is in the same situation (I forget his name).

    Regarding the Headmaster Portraits, the exact quote from Jo is from the Leaky Cauldron’s account of the recent Carnegie Hall talk:
    Q: Is Severus Snape’s portrait in the headmaster’s office?

    JKR: Some have been asking why hasn’t the portrait appeared immediately. It doesn’t. The reason is that the perception in the castle itself and everyone who was in the castle, because Snape kept his secret so well was that he abandoned his post. So all the portraits you see in the headmaster’s study are all headmasters and mistresses who died, it’s like British royals. You only get good press if you die in office. Abdication is not acceptable, particularly if you marry and American. I’m kidding! [laughter] I digress.

    Thank you for the name derivation ideas. I tend to do my own research (trustworthy sources and all that), but it is nice to have a starting point. I will be adding the name derivations (since they’re non-canon) *after* I finish with the canon updates.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    selia, Regarding Draco as a Death Eater. I have removed the one firm reference to him having been formally initiated into DE ranks. He *probably* was a DE but there is no firm corroboration in canon that Steve or I can find. His presence at the DE council in DH1 isn’t conclusive. It was his family home after all, and Narcissa was there too, sitting “rigid and impassive.” Perhaps someone will ask Jo for confirmation someday.

    Pro DE: Harry was usually right about Draco in Book 6 and we know that LV had initiated teens before (as with Regulus).
    Con DE: we never actually see the Dark Mark, or hear anyone else refer to one (Narcissa, Crabbe or Goyle, for example). LV could have made his initiation contingent on his success with killing Dumbledore.

  • selia

    ok, that`s true, but I recall other proDEs (I don’t have the boook with me, so I am not 100% sure). After the trio ran away from the wedding and got rid of those who found them in London, Voldemort came there a told Draco to cruciate them or sth. Why would Voldemort take a non-DE with him? Also the meeting – yes, it was Draco’s home, but it was obviously inner-circle meeting, I don’t think he would be allowed in if he wasn’t DE at the time, they were discussing the top secret and top priority plans. And I can’t see any other explanation of the way he threatened Borgin in 6th year than the death mark. There are other DE in the books that we know are DEs only because they act so and the Trio/DA/Order people suppose so =call them so.

  • Marco

    @Lisa

    The name of the other brandnew Slytherin Chaser was Vaisey, considered by Ron as their best goal-scorer, although he was never mentioned playing Quidditch.

    Possible solution:

    Remember, that Fred and George had stuffed regular player Montague into the Vanishing Cabinet, as he had attempted to deduct house points from them as a member of Inquisitorial Squad. As Montague was extricated from that Cabinet, he was in a pitiable condition and might have been not able to play the last game, and so either Vaisey or Urquhart might have stood in for him.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    At this point we don’t know if Draco was a fully paid up member. Remember Fenrir Greyback isn’t a full DE (he doesn’t have the Mark), even if he was allowed to wear the DE robes…

  • Patrick

    Alright. I found it. I knew there was a quote from an interview with JKR where she said Draco was a Death Eater – here it is!

    JKR: Well, I’m glad you think so, because I enjoyed this one. Draco did a lot of growing up in this book as well. I had an interesting discussion, I thought, with my editor Emma, about Draco. She said to me, “So, Malfoy can do Occlumency,” which obviously Harry never mastered and has now pretty much given up on doing, or attempting. And she was querying this and wondering whether he should be as good as it, but I think Draco would be very gifted in Occlumency, unlike Harry. Harry’s problem with it was always that his emotions were too near the surface and that he is in some ways too damaged. But he’s also very in touch with his feelings about what’s happened to him. He’s not repressed, he’s quite honest about facing them, and he couldn’t suppress them, he couldn’t suppress these memories. But I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalizing his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he’s shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He’s shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself. But then he’s playing with the big boys, as the phrase has it, and suddenly, having talked the talk he’s asked to walk it for the first time and it is absolutely terrifying. And I think that that is an accurate depiction of how some people fall into that kind of way of life and they realize what they’re in for. I felt sorry for Draco. Well, I’ve always known this was coming for Draco, obviously, however nasty he was.

    http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-2.htm

    I seem to think that this more or less settles it. Draco was a Death Eater.

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Yup. And from my own website too. I totally missed that detail. Can’t change the Lex for a few hours, so don’t expect corrections immediately. Thanks for digging it up!

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    Yay! tq Patrick!

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    50 points for your house, Patrick! I think I got all the pages corrected: “M,” Draco, and the DE list.

  • Reader2

    No offence, but I think you still have your work cut out for you with the DE list.

    For starters, why do you still need the entries on on “Big Blonde” and “Brutal-Face”?

    Also, if your list includes unbraided followers, like Greyback, Quirell and Bagman, you might as well include Golgomath and Scabior.

    I got rid of the dellusion that there was something called “dark circle”, but I still urge you to distinguish between the members of the innercircle and the lower ranks.

    You might also make a separate paragraph for the imperiused, you’ve mentioned Katie, but there are also Rosmeta, Shanpike and Thikeness.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    The DE page was updated for Draco only, sorry if my note was misleading. It will take days to work on that page for many different reasons, so I am saving it for later. Please remember that if a page doesn’t have the DH symbol I know it isn’t finished.

  • kamion

    sorry Patrick and Lisa, as long as I haven’t seen the Dark Mark on Draco’s left arm, he is no Death Eater for me…. just a wannabe-Death Eater. Who miserably failed his exam. The fact that Greyback did not belonged to the inner circle of the Marked ones, convinced me that Draco was not Marked. I also got the impression that the whole Malfoy family wasn’t so keen on being Death Eater anymore, seeing with which amount of glory they were showered in the last book.

  • willowtree

    I’ve just noticed while reading the Death Eater page that you forgot to list Gorge’s ear caused by Snape in “Permanent injuries known to be caused by Death Eaters”.

  • Ravenclovia

    I like “Profile” and think it an apt description. For the more compact version, rather than “List” might I suggest borrowing from the academic world “vita” or “c.v.”? Both are essentially Latin for “bio” (“c.v.” is short for “curriculum vitae”), and this is what academics normally call what those in the business world call a resume. What appears on these pages (which are for me, as planned, the usual quick-reference starting place) isn’t really a list, but a compact history of activities and achievements, with basic personal information as a prelude.

  • Patrick

    Sorry kamion…but as to whether he passed or failed at a mission doesn’t make the dark mark dissapear: it’s not exactly a water-based tatoo. Same thing goes for the Malfoy family as a whole-even though they’ve screwed up (especially Draco and Lucius), they’ve still got the mark. To quote The Imposter Moody, “Some marks don’t come off, if you know what I mean.”

    Greyback has nothing to do with determining the Malfoy’s loyalty; Voldy just didn’t want him.

    Thanks, Lisa. Just trying to help the Lexicon expand! And Ravenclaw appreciates those 50 points, by the way.
    :)

  • Reader2

    Sorry, Lisa.

    I got a bit carried away with suggestions, but I figured they would be of more use to you now while you are still working on the page than after you are done.

    Patrick and Kamion,

    You might want to remember that Death Eaters were all about the blood status, so it would make sence for Voldemort to deside who is worthy of his mark based on their ancestry.

    Geryback was not pure blood, not even human, so no matter how much he did for Voldemort, he had no shot at the mark.

    Malfoys, on the other hand, were heirs to one of the most ancient and respectable pureblooded families, so they had a spot in the innercircle secured for them.

    After all, if Crabbe and Goyl were allowed in the circle, we know it was not for brilliant performance.

  • hpfan1234578

    I don’t think Professor L

  • Ashley

    I use the “lists” page as a quick reference, so I think that is appropriate as the “main page.” As for the details page, that’s obviously when I want to know more and have more time. I like “profile.” If you think about it, when cops want to know about someone they ask for a profile and/or consult a profiler. The words seems fitting, I think.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Katti and domoor, I got the spelling errors you found corrected.

    For the pages currently labeled “Quick facts,” how about “Data”? So it would be “Harry Potter: Data” and “Lord Voldemort: Data“. I could also call it “Obsessively Picky Details and Charts” …

    Reader2, thanks. Your note hit me on something like the 8th day with too little sleep because I’m feeling so driven to get this done.

    I’m in the S’s! Yay!

  • Reader2

    I just discovered a picture of Jessie Cave, who appearently will be playing Lavander Brown in HBP.

    What’s the deal?

    Was Jennifer Smith selected behind Rowlings back, or did Rowling change her mind over the years about what Lavander is supposed to look like.

    Now I can only hope that they won’t make her blonde, getting stuck with another stereotype, but the hope is growing dim.

  • Reader2

    MY previous message was off topic, so it will probably be deleted, but this one is on-topic:

    I want to point out another missing character, or rather group of characters:
    MacBoons from “Fantastic Beasts” (the quintaped-people).

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Yes, I saw those pictures too. She’s not in character as Lavender in those photos so I don’t think we know yet what film!Lavender will look like. Hair color is easy to change.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Yup, you’re right. I have the McCliverts on there, but not the MacBoons.

  • JJB

    I’ve never seen this question before but that doesn’t mean it isn’t out there—probably on a part of a page on the Lexicon I’ve overlooked—but, for your entertainment and possible edification while waiting for another book or more updates if you’ve never noticed it yourself…

    Question: What was the incantation and how many pages (American edition) before we first witness Harry use his wand and an incantation to perform magic—chapter title will do in lieu of page number.

    Answer: “Rictusempra” after 501 pages into the HP series (paperback editions) in Chapter 11 “The Dueling Club” on page 192 of the Chamber of Secrets. Believe it or not, Harry never uses his wand and an incantation in the entire first book in the series and it is well over half of the way through CS before we actually witness Harry perform magic with his wand. Five pages earlier we do see Harry touch his wand to a Filibuster firework before throwing it into Goyle’s cauldron to cause a distraction for Hermione to steal some Boomslang skin but there is no incantation.

    Note: Let me know if I missed something in my own research and there is another prior spell out there—no, not Priori Incantatum :P

  • Bandersnatch

    I believe you are correct, JJB.

    So what’s the first spell that Ron does with a wand? Wingardium Leviosa on the troll’s club?

    Hermione’s first spell was “Oculus Reparo” in the films, but in the books it was… um… Alohomora to get into Fluffy’s room? Or Wingardium Leviosa in Flitwick’s class?

  • selia

    From Pettigrew’s profile: “He met Harry again in Malfoy Manor and tried immediately to kill him, but when Harry reminded Wormtail of his life debt, Wormtail hesitated…” It makes it sound like if his immediate reaction to seeing Harry was his desire to kill him, but it was only because he was sent to check what was going on in the cellar,that he was about to attack Harry, I think. He was not that kind of killer who kills just for the good feeling it gives him, he was just a huge coward.
    Btw, any guess when you get to updating Harry’s profile? I am looking forward to seeing that one since July

  • selia

    Scaboir’s entry misspells Greyback as Grayback

  • Lexicon Lisa

    selia, I started updating the gifts chart on Harry’s “data” page last night (it isn’t finished, I only did the birthday gifts), but that’s as far as I’ve gotten. He’s so key I need to write his piece when I have as few distractions as possible (ie: when the other pages are in a good state). I expect to start his section this weekend.

    By the way, Narcissa has her own page now. http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/narcissa.html

  • JJB

    Bander, you’re right about Ron’s first wand magic (Wingardium Leviosa) and your first suggestion about Hermione—Alohomora—is right.

    One reason I find this subject interesting is that I noticed on my very first read-through that for a magical person Harry didn’t rely much on magic to solve his own problems. It was always more about “friendship and bravery and – oh Harry…”

    Now we learn from Beedle the Bard that magic is not the best weapon to achieve one’s heart’s desire and magic should be used altruistically. The strange sense I had from the beginning of the series turns out to be part of the point Jo was making all along—go figure:P

  • selia

    great, thanks! it’s amazing what you are doing. the character pages along with the essays are my favourite parts of the lexicon

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Which points out a large fallacy in this week’s Papal statement, where one criticism of the Potter books is that problems are solved with magic (as opposed to how the children in the Narnia books work through theirs).

  • Bandersnatch

    Here’s a question: how many incantations were actually introduced in Book 1? Wingardium Leviosa and Alohomora… Petrificus Totalus… was there anything else? Not very many, at any rate.

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Bander, You might try using the Lexicon’s Portkey to find this out. It organizes the results by book. ?Search the word “spell”? Of course, you can always just read the book again =) It is *still* my favorite because I witnessed the response to it first hand while working in an elementary school library and never saw anything like it.

  • JJB

    Bander,

    It’s great having someone like me—obsessive and detail oriented–playing this little game. Some would say I’ve just insulted you but…

    Locomotor Mortis for the Leg-Locker as opposed to the Full Body Bind and we never learn an incantation for the bluebell flames that can be carried around in a jam jar that Hermione specializes in conjuring. I can’t think of any others in HP1 at the moment.

  • Reader2

    Lisa,
    I’d like to point out that there is a bit more known about Malfoys.

    For Narcissa, we can estimate her years at Hogwarts, and we know that she was a Slytherin.

    We can tell that Abraxas was a Slytherin too, since Draco said his “entire family” was.

    For Draco, you might wan to update the line on grandparents, since we know three out of four, but it still says “unknown”.

    Also, we don’t know the properties of Narcissa’s wand, but we do know that she gave it up for Draco, and I am under impression that it was destroyed during the fire in the room of requirement, but I might be wrong about that one.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    that’s another thing. when sirius said his “entire family” is in slytherin, does that include the blasted off family members? like andromeda and alphard and phineas jr. and isla (obviously marius won’t be at hogwarts since he’s a squib, poor fellow)… they don’t sound very slytherin to me.

  • Reader2

    aislingyngaio,

    Give the Slytherins a break, they don’t have to all be evil.

    Besides, would it make sence for Sirius to say “entire family” if it didn’t include his favorite cousin?

    Then there is exact same statement from Slughorn.
    Sounds to me like Rowling had been repeatedly pointing out that ALL Blacks were in Slytherin, and Sirus was the first to “break the family tradition”.

  • Bandersnatch

    Not insulted at all, JJB. :-) And you’re right, I forgot Locomotor Mortis.

    Lisa, I actually did try to use the Portkey in exactly the way that you suggested back when I last posted, but for some reason the Portkey was not working for me. Or maybe it was just really slow and I was impatient. That happens. I shall try again.

  • Bandersnatch

    Lisa, I tried the Portkey again. It was indeed the slow/impatient combination at work. This time I waited long enough and was able to get results.

    Doing a simple search for “spell” or “spells” did not produce the desired results, by the way (only one hit for each). Doing an advanced search for the Spells icon did bring up about a dozen hits from Book 1 — although without my book in front of me, it was hard to tell whether a hit was a specific incantation like “Alohomora,” a name like “Curse of the Bogies,” a description like “Leg-Locker Curse,” or simply a reference to some generic, unspecified spell.

  • Bandersnatch

    Continuing my thought, it would be useful if, when a Portkey Event is tagged with an icon, clicking on that event gives you some specific indication as to why that icon is there. So for example, each event marked with the Spells icon would have a list of the spell(s) within that event that triggered it (and maybe links to those spells’ entries in the Lexicon). But I know the Portkey is not complete yet.

  • selia

    Hello, just two notes on Harry’s pages. Harry’s profile says that he learned from Snape’s memories that he himself contained a Horcrux. I think “a piece of Voldemort’s soul” or sth like that would be better, since JKR said on Pottercats that he wasn’t technically a Horcruxs, which needs to be made intentionally.
    Also, Lisa, I know Harry’s lists are not finished yet, but if you finished the gifts, you could add the Regulus’ locket Harry gave to Kreacher.

  • Ravenclovia

    It might be necessary to revisit Hermione’s page; there is an inconsistency not yet addressed in her school record. Although the first edition OP did indeed say that she had achieved ten O’s and one E on her OWLS (eleven total), in later editions the results are given as nine O’s and one E. (My source contrast: the first Scholastic hardback and the first Scholastic paperback.) It is of course possible that the second report is the mistake, but it seems to make sense; in both the published novels and such of Rowling’s notes as we have seen, only twelve courses are referred to, and given the ten courses whose grades we have and the two Hermione dropped in PA, all are accounted for. Personally, I had had a sneaking hope that Hermione had been persuaded to continue with Muggle Studies. It was obviously an easy class for her (though I distrust any course in which any student, however able, can achieve over 300 percent on an exam, and since DH I’ve wondered if perhaps the teacher, with her anti-pureblood convictions, was giving unconscious extra credit to a brilliant muggle-born). It would also undoubtedly be useful background for her desire to work against the chauvinism of the wizarding community. But I suspect that the “ten OWLS” will join the infamous “wand order error” as a passing mistake.
    By the way, isn’t it a nice piece of characterization that Hermione’s “worst” course should be DADA? Rowling and Harry make it emphatic in OP that in this field instinct and reactions ultimately matter more than study and grasp of principles, and Hermione has always been uneasy with subjects (such as flying) that can’t be mastered through books. It seems likely that it was her awareness of these limitations, and willingness to say from the beginning that it takes more than cleverness to make a great wizard, that made the Sorting Hat place her in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw.

  • Ravenclovia

    Correction to previous: I of course mean the first and later editions of HBP! Sorry!

  • Curio

    There’s a *gorgeous* Hannah Abbott that was posted in hp_summergen’s ’07 run:

    http://community.livejournal.com/hp_summergen/5051.html

    The reveal list is here:

    http://community.livejournal.com/hp_summergen/24855.html

  • bob

    i know this doesnt really have anything to do with this but i was thinking why dont you and jk rowling print out your books together. i mean you guys have a bunch of info and she has extra stuff too? i just thought that might be possible.

  • Reader2

    bob,

    Something tells me you should be talking to JKR about this.

    Back on the harmless topick:

    Ravenclovia,
    I actually thought that Herminoe could’ve passed the Muggle Studies OWL without taking any classes at all.
    The pure-blood wizards who run the Ministry are so out of touch with the muggle world they would probably pass any one who knows that muggles don’t live on trees.

    Assuming that which OWL to take is the student’s choice, would also solve the “Sally Anne Perks problem”.

    Sally was sorted right before Harry, yet she wasn’t there for the Charms OWL.

    We can simply assume that she chose not to take NEWT level Charms, and there for did not bother with the OWL test.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    can’t be, because i’ve gotten the impression that charms is a core subject. i mean, harry and ron attended divination OWL, even with it being an elective…

  • Reader2

    aislingyngaio,
    Harry and Ron don’t strike me as the kind of guys who carefully choose anything.
    There approach is more like “What the heck? We might as well”.
    If they din’t have to take the teast they would still take it, they just wouldn’t care about the results, which they didn’t.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Just popping in to say how much I am enjoying the insights posted here.

    Bander, I will forward your observations to Steve and John — they’re the Portkey gurus right now.

    :nose back to the grindstone:

  • JJB

    Reader2, You commented earlier that Narcissa’s wand might have been lost; I think you’re right about that. There seems to be no way Malfoy left the Room of Requirement with his mother’s wand. “…knocking Malfoy’s wand out of his hand; it rolled out of sightbeneath a mountain of broken furniture and boxes.” A few moments later Goyle was disarmed by Harry and Crab cast an AKC at Ron and ran toward him. “The wandless Malfoy cowered behind a three-legged wardrobe…” Seconds later they were all running from the fire and Malfoy’s next described action was to grab the stunned Goyle. In fact, Goyle’s wand was destroyed in the fire as well because he didn’t retrieve it before being stunned by Hermione after being disarmed by Harry. Crab’s wand is gone too but that’s sort of a minor loss in the grander scheme of what Crab lost in the RoR. I would be upset about that if he hadn’t been trying to kill the trio;”

  • http://GordonTrio GordonTrio

    I was wondering when you were going to update Ron’s page. I ask due to the confusion if Ron became an Auroa after the battle or simply went to work with George at the shop.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    i think ron’s case would be similar to neville’s: they went with kingsley right after the battle to become aurors, and then resigned and switch to their present careers.

  • JJB

    Anyone else find it ironic that Harry’s signature spell–Expelliarmus–which saved him from LV in the graveyard and ultimately caused LV to resume room temperature was a spell Harry learned from Snape?

  • GordonTrio

    Question… I show that Lupin’s page has been completed but I thought in one of JK Rowling’s interview she stated who had killed him.. does anyone remember?

  • Lexicon Lisa

    JJB, Someone pointed that out in a talk I heard at Prophecy, and it’s the kind of thing I love about the stories.

    GordonTrio, I am working on the Weasley pages as a group, and should be through in a few days. As far as Ron’s jobs post-graduation, what I plan to do is acknowledge the conflicting statements and suggest how they might be reconciled, along the lines of what aislingyngaio posted.

  • Lexicon Lisa

    GordonTrio, if I left that out it was an oversight. Yes, I believe she said in the Bloomsbury Chat that Dolohov killed Lupin and Bellatrix killed Tonks.

  • GordonTrio

    I love you GUYS\GIRLS!!!! : )

  • Jodie

    Reader2: I wonder if Hermione could pass muggle studies without actually studing the books? with some of the thoughts as to what muggles actually do in the books–seems that studying would be needed –the books vs real muggle life I do not think actually match.

  • Reader2

    Jody,

    You might be right.

    Some of my friends who (like myslef) were raised in Russia, but now live in US, were taking Russian literature and Russian hystory classes in colledge, because they thought that for them it would be an easy A.
    Instead, they discovered that American view of Russian literature is so twisted they would need to do some actual studying just to figure out what their professors want of them.
    Although, they nearly laughed themselves to death while they were studying.

    However, my friends were a long way from Hermione.

    She had probably read two years ahead of the program and was all saddled up for the OWLs before she dropped the MUggle Studies, at the end of her third year.

  • kamion

    just discovered the name Filch among a list of characters of the Beggar’s Opera, also known in version Dreigroschneoper by Brecht. Also the name Bagshot appear on the list of characters.

    just like to let you know

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Excellent and plausible, kamion. To my knowledge The Beggar’s Opera has never been mentioned as a source for names before.

    Later edit: how could she have resisted those names (Filch, Wat Dreary, Robin of Bagshot, Nimming Ned) and the social satire? I think you nailed it. BTW, I found it online at http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/beggar.html

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    GordonTrio, here’s what I am dealing with regarding Ron’s career:

    7/26 (Today Show):
    “Harry and Ron utterly revolutionize the Auror Department. They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.”

    7/30 (Bloomsbury Live Chat):
    “Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny et al would of course play a significant part in the re-building of wizarding society through their future careers.”

    Q: Could you tell us what professions Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny and Luna go on to have did the trio do their final year at school and take their newts?
    J.K. Rowling: “Thank you! I’ve already answered about Hermione. Kingsley became permanent Minister for Magic, and naturally he wanted Harry to head up his new Auror department. Harry did so (just because Voldemort was gone, it didn’t mean that there would not be other Dark witches and wizards in the coming years). Ron joined George at Weasleys’ Wizarding Wheezes, which became an enormous money-spinner…”

    12/17 (PotterCast #130):
    “Harry and Ron didn’t go back [to Hogwarts to finish school], Hermione did. Did you bet right? You must’ve, I mean, come on. No one’s gonna think Hermione wouldn’t go back.

    Of course she’d go back. She has to get her N.E.W.T.s. Ron was really done with schooling. It would be kind of tempting to go back just to mess around for a year and have a break, but he goes into the Auror department. He’s needed. Anyone. Anyone who was in that battle on the right side, Kingsley would want them to help clean up the– I mean, anyone who’s old enough to do it, who’s over-age. But Kingsley would’ve wanted Ron, Neville, Harry and they would’ve all gone, and they would’ve all done the job. And I think that that would’ve been a good thing for them, too. Because to go through that battle and then be religated to the sidelines, I think they would’ve felt a need to keep going and finish the job. So that would’ve been rounding up, really, the corrupt people who were doing a Lucius Malfoy and trying to pretend that they weren’t really involved.”
    ————–
    Rowling clearly says that Ron worked with George at WWW instead of going back to school (as opposed to later, after helping Kingsley clean things up). But then she also implies that Kingsley recruited Ron immediately after the battle, that he didn’t sit on the sidelines. I haven’t gone out to the forums to see what ideas are out there to reconcile this, but I don’t see why he couldn’t have done both, though I would guess that a larger proportion of the Auror work was done earlier (when it was needed) and more of the WWW work was done later in life.

  • Bandersnatch

    Lisa, I don’t think it’s so clear from the Bloomsbury Live Chat that Ron did WWW immediately after DH instead of going back to school. The questioner asked Rowling two things: (a) what were the future professions of the Trio, Ginny, and Luna; and (b) did the Trio do Seventh Year. It’s not clear that she answered (b); she might have only been answering (a). Which means that Ron joining WWW could have happened a few years down the line rather than right after the Battle of Hogwarts. After all, Ginny’s career as a Holyhead Harpy didn’t start immediately post-DH.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    I think you solved the Gordian knot, Bander! What does everyone else think?

  • Bandersnatch

    BTW I brought up Ginny because it’s what Rowling says in the sentence that follows “Ron joined George at Weasleys’ Wizarding Wheezes, which became an enormous money-spinner…” in the Bloomsbury Chat. (I just realized that you didn’t post that part.) My point is, if she spoke of Ginny’s eventual career (Harpy, family, Quidditch correspondent), maybe she was also talking about Ron’s eventual — rather than immediate — profession.

  • Bandersnatch

    Oops, I posted just now not having seen that you already answered. And what the heck are you doing up at this hour, Lisa? (Then again, what the heck am *I* doing up!? Bedtime for Bander!)

  • kamion

    Lexicon Lisa wrote:

    Excellent and plausible, kamion. To my knowledge The Beggar’s Opera has never been mentioned as a source for names before.

    Later edit: how could she have resisted those names (Filch, Wat Dreary, Robin of Bagshot, Nimming Ned) and the social satire? I think you nailed it.

    Lexicon Lisa
    I could not find out what character Filch is in the Beggars’ Opera, but I got the impression he is as sleazy a figure the buyer and seller of stolen goods, Peachum
    btw. I also got the idea that Jemmy Twitcher would be a perfect name for the Charms professor when Flitwick resigns. wonder if JKR also thought about a next generation set of professors.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/comments/?comments_popup=248 Quidditch5

    omg Lexicon Lisa that is so funny! lol
    but I wonder the same things I mean…whos DADA? Headmaster? Muggle Studies? and when like Flitwick and McGonagall and Sprout, even Hagrid retire, who’ll take their places? good thoughts, Lexicon Lisa, good thoughts

  • Bandersnatch

    Lisa,

    Just a random thing that I stumbled across on the Lord Voldemort: Data page (since you mention it), which might need to be corrected.

    http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/voldemort.html

    Under KNOWN VICTIMS:
    Note: Voldemort did not kill Quirrell — that only happened in the film.

    You’re correct that Voldemort did not kill Quirrell in the book (I think; see below). But he didn’t in the movie, either — it was Harry. So this statement is not needed.

    Actually, the book seems to imply that it was Harry who killed Quirrell. Dumbledore says (PS17/US298), “He left Quirrell to die.” Die of what? Presumably, of the injuries that Harry gave him by clinging on to his arm and blistering his skin. (Although I suppose it is possible that Dumbledore killed Quirrell after he pulled him off Harry. Or possibly the shock of Voldemort’s soul leaving Quirrell’s body was what did it.)

    The main difference in the movie is that Harry sees Quirrell die whereas in the book he does not. (And of course there’s no evidence in the book that Harry’s touch caused Quirrell to CGI-disintegrate like he did in the film.)

  • Bandersnatch

    And one more completely unrelated thing that I found just now, on the page for the Weasley family:

    http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/weasley.html

    Molly and Arthur have at least fourteen grandchildren (DH/e, YL).

    By my count, there are only 12: Victoire, Dominique, Louis (from Bill); Molly and Lucy (from Percy); Fred and Roxanne (from George); Rose and Hugo (from Ron); James, Albus, and Lily (from Ginny). Am I missing anybody?

  • Bandersnatch

    Same thing with Molly Weasley’s profile, by the way:
    http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/molly.html

    You list fourteen grandchildren there, but I think you have included both Lily and Luna (the latter a middle name) along with two Freds.

  • Reader2

    For the Weasley family page, I suggest that you make a paragraph on Prewetts, that is if you don’t want to make a separate “Prewett Family” page.

    After all, Prewettbrothers were introduced specfically to show that Weasley family had already suffred losses in the previous war.

    Besides, most of the relatives with no surnames that you’ve listed there are Molly’s relatives.

    Also, among those, you are missing Lancelot.

    Even though his relation to Weasleys is beyond distant, in a family that includes an Arthur and a Ginevra, you’ve got to have a Lancelot, to complete the set.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Bander has pointed out the real reason I never became an architect. Ahem. Yes, it should read “at least twelve,” which is a good Jo-ish number anyway.

    I debated taking out the Quirrell bit altogether because it doesn’t seem to be an issue anymore in fandom. That bit has been there a long time, probably since thestrals made it controversial.

    Ooooh. Lancelot. I’ll get him listed there tonight, though if Muriel is Molly’s auntie that lessens the connection to Arthur and Percy (who I *still* think is Percival). Thanks Reader2.

    I cover the Prewetts mostly on Molly’s page and the “P” page, but you’re right, acknowledgment on the Weasley page isn’t a bad idea.

    Quidditch5, I *wish* I were funny. Kamion wrote that bit about the names. I have hopes that the new Charms prof is female for some reason. Here, for your delectation are some of the female character names from the Beggar’s Opera: Polly Peachum, Mrs. Coaxer, Betty Doxy (hem hem), Jenny Diver (*looks innocent*), and Mrs. Slammekin. Jo’s names have a lot in common with 18th-century plays: alliteration, hints to their character, and a real love of the way they sound.

  • Bandersnatch

    Lisa said:
    I debated taking out the Quirrell bit altogether because it doesn’t seem to be an issue anymore in fandom. That bit has been there a long time, probably since thestrals made it controversial.

    I’m not sure I understand, Lisa. Your note on the Voldemort page is about him killing Quirrell, and I don’t think the fandom controversy was about people thinking that he did. Because nothing in the movie suggests Voldemort did that, so why would they think it?

    I thought the whole movie-contamination thing came from the fact that when the Thestrals showed up in OP, people wondered why Harry couldn’t see them starting from the end of PS, since he supposedly saw Quirrell die.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Yes, you’re right — people who had seen the movie were arguing that Harry should have seen the thestrels when he arrived for his second year at Hogwarts because he had seen Quirrell die. But that was movie Quirrell and not book Quirrell. So the paragraph should focus more on what Harry saw, and not really who killed Quirrell. Does that make any more sense? I have a feeling we’re saying the same thing =)

  • Reader2

    While I am on the roll, one more suggestion regarding the Weasleys:
    You have an entry on Septimus, which also describes his wife Cedrella.
    Why not make a separate entry on Cedrella?
    I know she was not born Weasley, but neither was Molly.
    Or you could just chenge the entry into “Septimus & Cedrella”, for the sake of equal rights.

  • Bandersnatch

    Gotcha, Lisa. I think we’re on the same page.

    (I just figured out the bit about Lancelot. LOL.)

  • JJB

    Molly’s eye color: precisely the same shade of brown as Ginny’s DH6

  • JJB

    On Molly’s page it is noted that the Boggart presents her whole family to her one by one dead. One time there are two—the twins—and Harry is there but not yet real family; Ginny doesn’t appear at all.

  • julesmerope

    it is mentioned by James potter (Sr. not harry’s son) that james’ father was a gryffindor. as seen in snape’s memories in the pensieve chapter of DH

  • JJB

    Rita Skeeter’s fingernails aren’t merely, nor only, red: Crimson GF18, scarlet OP25, and shocking pink to go with her banana yellow robes GF 24

  • JJB

    At the wedding there was “a drunken uncle of Ron’s who seemed unsure whether or not Harry was his son.”DH8 Harry was a red-headed Weasley cousin at the time so the uncle in question must have been a Weasley and, therefore, one of Arthur’s brothers. Don’t know where this fits in, it’s just an observation 

  • JJB

    About Ron (and Hermione): “Given the ages of their children, the marriage took place at some point between 1998 and 2005 (DH/e).”

    We can reasonably eliminate the Hogwarts school year of 98-99 for Ron and Hermione’s marriage—and therefore children—since Hermione went back to Hogwarts for her seventh year to take her N.E.W.T.s. Also, JKR mentioned in a chat that she didn’t want to encourage marrying/having children at too young an age and so gave sufficient time before the beginning of the Epilogue so that Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione didn’t marry too young.

    As for Ron’s Dates, Flirtations, Etc.: What about his long-standing infatuation with Madame Rosmerta? From PA “ ”That’s Madam Rosmerta,” said Ron. “I’ll get the drinks, shall I?” he added, going slightly red.” PA10 Through HBP when Hermione teases Ron with “I doubt you’d find a woman who sulked for half an hour because Madam Rosmerta didn’t laugh at their joke about the hag, the Healer, and the Mimbulus mimbletonia.” HBP21

  • Reader2

    Since julesmerope brought it up,

    James makes a point of his father being a Gryffindore, but does not mention his mother. That means that the theory that Charlus and Dorea are James’ parents still lives.

    I’ve got one more observation about Prewtts.
    Fabian Prewett owned the watch, which is now worn by Harry Potter.
    That makes me wonder if the watch given to Ron in the previous book once belonged to Gideon.
    Did the two watches sound similar to anyone?

  • JJB

    Reader2, “It’s traditional to give a wizard a watch when he comes of age,” said Mrs. Weasley, watching him anxiously from beside the cooker. “I’m afraid that one isn’t new like Ron’s, it was actually my brother Fabian’s” DH7.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    There is a significance of Mrs. Weasley giving Harry Fabian’s watch, though I wonder why, since Ron’s the one who almost always ends up with the family hand-me-downs. (and i wonder who gave albus dumbledore his, since by then both of his parents were dead.)

  • JJB

    Aislingyngaio,
    Actually, Dumbledore’s mother was still alive when he turned seventeen. I think Mrs. Weasley giving Harry Fabian’s watch signified, primarily, that the Weasley’s didn’t have the money to buy brand new gold watches every day. They planned ahead for Ron’s, possibly saving for years. Also, it wasn’t all that easy to go shopping any more since becoming HQ for the Order and the hiding place for Harry, but Mrs. Weasley knew Harry would understand the gesture of giving the watch as reinforcing the idea of his being as good as one of her sons.

  • John

    I enjoyed Neville’s profile. Neville rocked DH.

  • Reader2

    OK, I looked up the part about the watch:
    “very like the one Mr. and Mrs. Wasley gave Ron for his seventeenth; it was gold, with stars circling around the face instead of hands”

    So it was like Ron’s, can you blame me for thinking they were from the same set?

    Although, it is indeed specifically stated that Ron’s was new.

    However, it doe scome with some info on Fabian:
    “.. he wasn’t terribly careful with his posessions, it’s a bit dented on hte back…”
    Not much, but at least it’s something.

    I’d like to point out that it would be pointless for Weasleys to make an expensive gift to Harry, who has more gold then they’ve ever seen, while something that once belonged to one of their relatives and a hero was priceless to Harry.

    However, giving a hand-me-down to a friend went completely against the Weasley-ethics.
    Arthur and Molly probably stayed up all night convincing each other that it will be a nice gift.
    Hopefully, Harry’s reaction made up for that.

  • JJB

    Reader2, I don’t blame you a bit. The symmetry of Ron and Harry getting the two brothers’ watches would have been cool. Your image of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley fretting over the gift *sniff* sounds just like them. Your point made me realize something else though. The two watches are a sort of metaphor for Harry and Ron’s true situations in life. In the material sense, Harry always had the newest and best (within the wizarding world) while Ron always had the battered hand-me-downs. Ron, who always bemoaned his poor state—especially compared to Harry—really always had better than anything Harry had. Harry got Mr. and Mrs. Weasley as “parents” second hand, just like the watch. Harry would have given all the gold he had in Gringotts and then some to have what Ron always had—two parents. Hopefully Ron was reminded of that when he saw Harry’s watch and saw his own new one. Perhaps he had already stopped to think about the riches he had compared to Harry when he nearly lost his father to Nagini’s attack. It is an all too common human failing to take for granted what we do have and focus only on the things we don’t.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/comments/?comments_popup=249 Vega Black

    Would Harry think of Fabina’s watch as a hand-me-down? Fabian was a war hero and martyr for the Order. Wouldn’t he think of it as a relic or an antique of value? How would a RL boy feel if he were given the watch worn by a decorated hero of D-day?

  • Lexicon Lisa

    I remember thinking that Harry was quite moved by the gift (as he should be).

    In other news, a reader named Yvonne wrote us with the results of her digging regarding Great Auntie Muriel:

    “I’m currently reading DH for the third time and I noticed that on page 48
    of the U.S. Hardcover edition, Moody refers to Muriel as “Molly’s Auntie
    Muriel.” (He does so in Chapter 4 during the discussion of the 12
    safehouses that have been prepared to confuse the Death Eaters as to Harry’s
    destination.) Therefore, it is fairly safe to assume that Muriel is a
    Prewett (or at least on the Prewett side of the family, whether or not that
    is her last name), especially seeing as Arthur is in the room at the time.

    Also, Muriel would be a Great-Aunt of Ron (and the rest of the Weasley
    children) if she is Molly’s Aunt. That would make her a sister or
    sister-in-law of one the Molly’s parents, and therefore a sister or
    sister-in-law of one of Ron’s (and his siblings’) grandparents.

    Another piece of evidence to further this deduction is on page 141 of the
    U.S. Hardcover edition (Chapter 8). When you first meet Muriel at the
    wedding she says “Another Weasley? You breed like gnomes.” This pretty
    much leaves no doubt in our minds that she herself isn’t a Weasley (and
    probably wasn’t married to one either).”

    Thank you Yvonne, for excellent work!

  • Reader2

    If Muriel is a part of the Prewett family, then so is Lancelot.

    I hope this will be enough of a reason to make a Prewett family page.

    Now the only relative whose status is not clear is Billius.

  • Reader2

    If Muriel is a part of the Prewett family, then so is Lancelot.

    I hope this will be enough of a reasont o make a Prewett family page.

    Now the only relative whose status is not clear is Billius.

  • Bandersnatch

    I’d say his status is looking Grim. :-)

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Oh, booooo!

    Here’s what I came up with for Muriel. basically, Yvonne is quite correct that we can’t be sure she’s a Prewett either.

    Prewett, Muriel?

    Referred to as “Great Auntie Muriel.” (HBP14, 29, DH4).

    As Molly’s aunt, Muriel could be either the sister or the sister-in-law of Molly’s parents. Even if Muriel is a connection through Molly’s father, a Prewett, that doesn’t necessarily mean that Muriel’s adult surname was Prewett. The only thing that is certain is that Muriel is not a Weasley. Many thanks to Yvonne B. who pointed this out.

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    Er… what’s all this about Lancelot?

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Lancelot’s one of those characters that just gets a mention in the books. He’s Muriel’s cousin, so his family status is somewhat linked with hers. Muriel trots Lancelot out as proof that Skeeter’s innuendos about Ariana are true. Here’s the entry for him (from the “L” page):

    Cousin of Ron Weasley’s Aunt Muriel, he was a Healer at St. Mungo’s around 1900 when Ariana Dumbledore was young. He told Muriel that the Dumbledores never brought Ariana into the hospital, which naturally made Muriel suspect the worst. After all, not going to the hospital certainly suggests that someone is sick, doesn’t it (DH8).

  • Lexicon Lisa

    Reader2, As far as a Prewett page, I think what we have — plus a small section on the Weasley family page — works well. Jo could have easily told us Muriel’s family name. That she didn’t means it is either unimportant, or it would have distracted from a story line. My guess is that to make batty old Muriel a Prewett weakens the impression of that family as young heroes. When Muriel is a more vague connection it deepens Molly’s storyline as someone who has lost most of her immediate family to Death Eater violence.

  • Reader2

    Actually Lisa,

    Molly also lost some of her family to something completely different.

    Remember Mafalda and the accountant.

    They are also MOlly’s relatives, so they are at least as likely to be Prewetts as Muriel is.

  • Ravenclovia

    Minor point for consistency: have we ever actually seen the name “Astoria” in a written source (i.e., not a transcription from a talk such as the Pottercast)? If not, I think it would be safe to assume that Draco’s wife’s name is “Asteria”; that is certainly what appears on the handwritten family tree. (Incidentally, this name is definitely one that would appeal to the star-loving Malfoy clan, while “Astoria,” if it has any meaning for them at all, would probably conjure up contemptuous thoughts of nouveau riche tradesmen.) So I’d like to suggest that the references to her give preference to the name “Asteria,” with “Astoria” given in the main citations (her own entry and Draco’s page, for instance) as a possible alternate, at least until we get somethng more definitive. At present (understandably, given the way information is accrued and sifted), the Lexicon seems to go back and forth.

    This led me to wonder whether a similar slip of the ear, not a real change of mind, was behind the long-held belief that Hermione’s middle name was Jane. But if so, Rowling has to take at least some of the blame; there was plenty of time to correct that assumption, written up on websites we know she sometimes used.

  • http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html Lisa

    Ravenclovia, Yes, it was written as ‘Astoria’ in the recent Time Magazine article. As it stands, the handwritten tree is the only place where it is given as Asteria. I and several others have listened to the PC broadcast it she pronounces it unmistakably as Astoria. So with 2 sources having an “o” and one having an “e” (as well as a date typo for Fred), I’m going with “o” for now.

    The “Hermione Jane” was pretty unimpeachable until it was given as ‘Jean’ in Book 7. The ‘Jane’ came from a chat where Jo herself was typing.

  • Bandersnatch

    Hermione Jean, the genius Granger.
    She’s just a girl with a massive brain.
    But her middle name’s not Jane.
    No, no, no, no… WOO!
    –sung to the chorus from Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean”

  • JJB

    LOL, Bander! Apparently you left everyone speechless or no one felt they could follow that! I, however, am undaunted. I spotted an odd set of coincidences with things that wer:

    Supposed to be 7 but turned out to be 8
    Voldemort intended to make a 7-part soul, but it turned out to have been broken into 8 parts: 6 Horcruxes, 1 part residing in LV’s body and one part residing in Harry’s body (a Harrcrux?).

    It was supposed that there were seven secret passageways to Hogwarts but there turned out to be 8 when the one to Aberforth’s pub opened up from the RoR.

    Most Experts agree magic will have revealed itself, if present, by the time a child is 7 (DH11)but it turned out that “Nothing happened” for Neville until he was 8 PS7)

    And now we hear that WB is considering breaking DH into two movies so that what was supposed to be 7 movies may turn out to be 8.

    Once is random, twice is coincidence, three times forms a pattern, and four times has the appearance of a conspiracy :P *runs to put on tin foil hat*

  • Oryx

    Regarding Muriel – considering that Sirius refers to the sister of his great-great-grandfather as Aunt Elladora, and considering the age difference (Muriel is about 60 years older than Molly) she might even be a great-aunt of Molly’s.

  • JJB

    Oryx, I’ve been thinking the same thing. In HBP29 Molly says: “Our Great-Auntie Muriel,” said Mrs. Weasley after a long pause, “has a very beautiful tiara – goblin-made – which I am sure I could persuade her to lend you for the wedding. She is very fond of Bill, you know, and it would look lovely with your hair.”
    It’s the “our” in the “our great Auntie Muriel” that seems to prove your point. Mollie would have said “my Auntie Muriel” otherwise because it is always understood that her aunt is an aunt to her children as well without saying so. All the Weasley kids at some point refer to plain old “Auntie Muriel” without using the “great” denominator but we know she is the great aunt and not Mollie’s sister.

  • Bandersnatch

    It appears that 7 is the most magical number — but 8 is the sneakiest one, when you end up getting more magic than you bargained for!

  • Lexicon Lisa

    JJB, teriffic analysis. I think you’re on to something!

    I am working on a diagram of the Weasley family that combines Jo’s recent drawing with what we know from the Black Family Tree. When you look at the dates in that larger context, it isn’t out of the question that Muriel be Molly’s aunt. I had a big deadline at work this week (an award nomination for a literacy program we run), but I should have time to post my drawing this weekend.

    P.S. I sent a reply to Bander a while ago but it isn’t there! Time to check the blog’s spam filter…

  • hpboy13

    Absolutely love the new pages, I’m especially glad that Narcissa got her own! She deserves it after all she’s been through. I wonder though, how come that smell-under-her-nose thing isn’t ever mentioned after GoF. Ideas, people? Is she allergic to Quidditch?

  • Tommy

    Why, in the page “Draco Malfoy”, at the voice “Grandparents” there is: “On the maternal side (Narcissa’s parents), Druella Rosier and an unnamed male from the Black family (BFT).” ??? From the Black Family Tree we know the name of Draco’s maternal grandparents: Cygnus Black and Druella Rosier… Cygnus Black is not unnamed….

  • JJB

    hpboy13,
    We have seen Narcissa in GF8, HBP2 and6, and DH1, 23, 34, and 36
    At the Quidditch World Cup Narcissa walks in with that look on her face that was mentioned and we see “Mr. Malfoy’s eyes had returned to Hermione, who went slightly pink, but stared determinedly back at him. Harry knew exactly what was making Mr. Malfoy’s lip curl like that. The Malfoys prided themselves on being purebloods; in other words, they considered anyone of Muggle descent, like Hermione, second-class.”
    Perhaps Naarcissa had already spotted Hermione, “Have it your own way, Potter,” said Malfoy, grinning maliciously. “If you think they can’t spot a Mudblood, stay where you are.”GF9

    When we see her again in HBP2 Narcissa’s face was “eloquent with despair” as she talked with Snape about her fears for Drako.
    But later in HBP6 we see her again in Madame Malkins with Drako to buy dress robes: “If you’re wondering what the smell is, Mother, a Mudblood just walked in.”
    “…with a contemptuous glance at Hermione, ‘Now I know the kind of scum that shop here. We’ll do better at Twilfitt and Tatting.’” Not precisely dung-under-the-nose but related to it.

    In DH1 Narcissa was “rigid and impassive”, likely because a look like dung was under her nose might get hexed off by LV—if he was feeling lenient. Later in DH23 we know her only by her cold voice. And in 34 we see “Narcissa whose eyes were sunken and full of apprehension.” In 36 we see her run through the crowd looking for Drako and finally sitting with her family unsure whether or not they should be there.
    The dung-under-the-nose expression seems to be a mixture of the haughty or arrogant expression often noted on the faces of Black family members—Belatrix OP25, Sirius OP28, Andromeda DH5 and Regulus DH10 –and her disdain for Muggleborns. We never see her, or even Drako at the train station, put on that haughty or disdainful expression again once LV has fallen. The Malfoys’ fall from favor helped wipe that look off her face and fear for her son did the rest. It would be interesting to see Narcissa in the years following the fall to see if anything of the humiliation at LV’s hands for her family caused her to lose any of the public arrogance.

  • Oryx

    JJB, another 7-turned-8 would be the number of years between the time Hermione started at Hogwarts and her graduation.

  • hpboy13

    JJB, you’re probably right. After Voldemort’s ascension, Draco even stops sneering, so of course Narcissa will stop. To be honest, when we met her in GoF I thought she’d be a reallly minor character we’d never see again, I couldn’t have imagined what a role se’d have to play.
    What I wonder is if Harry ever lets people know what Narcissa did for him. If he does, she’ll probably be hailed as one of the heroes of the war, as I think she should.

  • InkyKate

    I find it rather amusing that Hermione would have taken the Weasley name, and that Ginny wouldn’t have changed hers to Potter.

    Or is that just an oversight?

  • Bandersnatch

    Ginevra “Ginny” Molly Weasley Potter!

    No wonder she didn’t take Harry’s name! Too darn long! :P

  • Bandersnatch

    InkyKate, actually I don’t think it’s been stated definitively anywhere that Ginny didn’t take Harry’s last name — or, for that matter, that Hermione did take Ron’s. I assume that the Lexicon is going with the assumption that everybody took their husbands’ last name, and that Ginny’s married name just got misplaced. (Did you try looking under the sofa?)

  • Reader2

    Somebody already pointed out the words in the epilogue: “five Potters approached the barrier.”

    That should settle one family crisis.

  • Luna Lupin =Moony

    Concerning Narcissa and the look on her
    face: I think, Narcissa could have this
    look on her face in gf because she saw the Weasley’s and Harry and Hermione were in the same box as she and her family were in, or because she didn’t like the event at all. after dh36 I got more respect for her, because it was brave what she did: telling Voldemort Harry was dead (and he didn’t notice she was lying, oei!! if he had asked Bella to check, ..), she took a risky jump with that!
    Narcissa wasn’t so full of herself as
    the mythical Narcissus was, she cared about her son!
    She’s a mother, just as Molly, although
    less ??sympathetic??.

    Did you ever notice
    we never saw the Death eaters eat
    something while the weasleys were eating
    many times? The only link I saw with
    food were the sweets and cakes Draco got
    from home, Fenrir threatening hrh with
    biting Hermione, Nagini eating
    Voldemort’s victims, but neve a
    celebration or feast as we saw in the
    Weasley-kitchen, …
    Lisa, i made some notes concerning food
    in fairy tales and some books: function,
    the way it’s used: weapon, lure, …
    Interested?

  • Bandersnatch

    Thanks Reader2. That quote failed to register in my brain, but you’re certainly right. (Although I wonder how the sentence would have read if Ginny had not taken Harry’s name? “The Potter, Weasley, and three Potter-Weasleys approached the barrier”…?)

  • Reader2

    Since Narcissa became such a popular subject, I recommend recalling the final part of the myth of Narcissus.

    There, Narcissus sits by the lake, looking at his own reflection and dieing of love for himself.
    At his side stnads the nyph Echo and tries to comfort him the only way an echo can, by repeating whatever he says, making him feel like the reflection is speaking to him.

    Rowling had practically recreated this scene in HBP, when Draco is crying in the bathroom, in front of a mirror, and Myrtle is floating by, trying to comfort him.

    Impressive, isn’t it?

  • Princess

    Hi, on the subject of Draco’s grandparents, doesn’t he mention his grandfather Abraxus Malfoy whilst trying to win Slughorn’s favour, Abraxus died of dragonpox.

  • Tommy

    yes, it’s true, but the name is Abraxas…

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    Poor Malfoys only have one son for three generations. I wonder if it would be different if their first child is a girl. The Malfoy name would die out then. *celebrates*

  • Oryx

    Do we know that Lucius had no siblings? Let alone Abraxas? Who knows if any of the DEs or other, non-DE purebloods was Lucius’ brother-in-law?

  • hpboy13

    Actually, Oryx, I don’t think Abraxas was one of the “three Malfoys”. Draco is one, Lucius is two, and Abraxas is three is Lucius is indeed an only child – as I’ve always believed, but now I realize without any canon evidence. That Abraxas is an only child would be a ridiculous thing to assume since we know nothing about him, he coudl be an only child or one of twelve for all we know.

  • Reader2

    Oryx and hpboy13,

    I think aislingyngaio meant Scorpios.

    At the king cross there was no sign of other Malfoy kids, so it is most likely that Scorpios is the only child.

  • Bandersnatch

    And Rowling would have probably included Scorpius’s siblings on her family tree if there had been any.

  • Beth

    I know this is probably not the place to post this, but I was just wondering what’s happening with Lexicon? Why hasn’t it been updated in about a month? Is everyone just busy working/re-working pages? I know that’s a lot of work to do….so maybe everyone is just busy….

    But I check this website almost every day. And it just worries me that the last new post “New Page: Grimmauld Place” was so long ago…and that the conversations in the Pensieve suddenly turned so…”mean”? (I don’t know the best word for that…”, and then the ability to post anything further was turned off. What happened? What happened with the coversations in that post, and what’s happening with this website?

    I miss being able to check and see Harry Potter updates…
    :(

  • Ravenclaw1028

    Beth,
    i must say i agree completely.
    Where is everyone?
    new updates? please? please?
    i spend all my time here pretty much.
    seriously, what happened i that
    peniseve comment board?
    Lotss lotss lotss of love,
    ravenclaw1028.

  • JJB

    I feel like it’s all my fault–all those picky comments. Come back, John, and I promise never to be too obsessive again. Anyone think he’ll buy that? Oh well, I wouldn’t either:)

    Anyway, we all love all of you and are waiting with open arms.

    Since John won’t take my comments, I guess I’ll just have to bug Lisa:)

  • JJB

    I’d like to suggest adding Andromeda’s first name to the “A” page and crosslink it to the Tonks, Andromeda “Dromeda” Black listing.

    To add to what we know of Andromeda under her character name, we also know she has a knack for packing, “getting stuff to fit itself in neatly – she even gets the socks to fold themselves”. OP3

    Of Ted we know he fixed Harry’s arm, ribs and broken tooth—while Andromeda fixed up Hagrid.DH4 The Tonks appear to be a medically talented family. I wonder if Tonks learned “Episkey” (HBP8)from her parents or in auror training?

    Also, Ted Tonks’ death is listed as 1997 but we learn of his death on Potterwatch (DH22) which occurred some time in March of 1998. Dirk Cresswell also died at the same time but his death year isn’t noted on his listing. During this broadcast we learn of Bathilda Bagshot’s death which did occur months earlier in 1997 but apparently had only just been discovered by the Order. Bathilda’s was the only death singled out for mention to have occurred at a time other than around the time of the Potterwatch broadcast. When Lupin told of Hagrid’s near arrest he gave examples of others who have suffered for their support of Harry and Xeno who was arrested at the end of 1997 was among them but it was an historical example of which regular listeners already knew.

  • JJB

    Talking of Potterwatch reminds me… we know the participants used code names based on their real names, River=Jordan, Royal=Kingsley, Romulus=Remus, but why was Fred Rapier? The name Rodent made sense as a play on words with his last name, Weasle(y) but what is the connection with Rapier? I’ve supposed it referred to his rapier wit, but that doesn’t match the others’ direct name word play. Someone enlighten me, please.

  • Bandersnatch

    “Rapier wit” was my assumption, too.

  • kamion

    Bandersnatch wrote:

    And Rowling would have probably included Scorpius’s siblings on her family tree if there had been any.

    — February 5, 2008 @ 11:15 pm
    I always wondered a bit about that; one should expect these ” wizard nobility families” at least to have a heir and a spare. Arranged marriages are never mentioned by JKR as such, just if a marriage is decent or not, but arranged marriage happen young. Maybe that was the case to for Malfoy’s and their only sons were just the only ones that survived their first year.

  • anonymous

    There is no god.

  • anonymous

    Did you know that when you die, your body just decomposes into the earth and nothing happens? That there’s no soul, there’s no heaven, god is meaningless. Any thoughts, any rationales?

  • anonymous

    Did you know that when you die, your body just decomposes into the earth and nothing happens? That there’s no soul, there’s no heaven, god is meaningless? Any thoughts, any rationales?

  • JJB

    Dearest Anonymous, I was preparing to comment on what Bander and Camien were saying and then your comment appeared, making anything else I might say seem rather trivial.

    Love is the overarching theme in Harry Potter and God is Love.

    Others can say it better than I can and many others have written much about it, but it is said that there is a God-shaped void in the soul of every man and our lives are spent in trying to fill that void. I do believe in God, I feel that void has been filled, and hope you find the same. If I am wrong or deluded then I will be no worse off at the end of my life for having found Love. Does your philosophy provide you the same assurance if you are mistaken?

    Even so, you have my love, whoever you are.

  • http://deleted JJB

    Oops, sorry for the misspelling, Kamion!

  • http://deleted JJB

    Back to my intended comment…
    RE: Bander/Kamion comments.
    Typically, as societies become more affluent their fertility rates drop; seems ironic that just when more children are affordable families start having less of them. Drako taunted Ron, “No need to ask who you are. My father told me all the Weasleys have red hair, freckles, and more children than they can afford.” (PS6) Many biases are formed by one’s own circumstance rather than any particular rational argument. The biases Mr. Malfoy passed on to Drako against families without money and with lots of children may point to him being an only child from a rich family himself. Whether by design to concentrate the wealth in the hands of a few by having only one son to inherit the family fortune or because many of their marriages were loveless, not so much because they were arranged as they were marriages of necessity due to a dwindling pool of suitable mates, the Purebloods were sealing the fate of their own demise. Even James Potter—Pureblood, affluent, well-cared-for and loved—was an only child. “Most wizards these days are half-blood anyway. If we hadn’t married Muggles we’d’ve died out.” (CS7) I wonder why that is? Still, even Snape appeared, from the evidence we have, to be an only child and he was neither Pureblood nor affluent; although he was born to an unhappy marriage for sure . Perhaps there is some other deeper magic at work. At any rate, I think the wizarding world is best served by dwindling numbers of Malfoys.

    BTW, I found a sixth Supposed to be 7 but Turned Out to Be 8: the HP series itself was always supposed to be 7 books but “The Scottish Book” has often been referred to as HP8–at least before we started calling it TSB;)

  • Reader2

    JJB,
    To be fare, you’ll have to admit that the “Scotish Book” will be #11.

    However, “Quidditch through Ages”, “Fantastic Beasts” and the “scottish Book” are not books of fiction, but more like helper-books.

    “Beedle the Bard”, on the other hand, is a book of fiction, just like the original “Harry POtter” series.

    That means that another 7 turned 8 would be the number of FICTION books in the set.

    Speaking of which, when will we see the cover of “Beedle the Bard” on the home page of Lexicon, next to the other 9 covers?

  • http://aislingngaio.topcities.com/ aislingyngaio

    James Potter was an only child, because his parents “had him late in life”. They’ve probably given up hope of having a child, which is why James was spoilt rotten when he was born.

  • Kez

    It’s really nice to see the website being updated properly again – I am really grateful for the free online encyclopedia and the Lexicon should all be congratulated for their hard work.

    One thing:

    Neville’s page mentions “Longbottom” only in the sense of posterior and power. The original etymology for all “-bottom” or “-botham” surnames (including Winterbottom and Ramsbotham) in Old English (from the Dales region) is “valley”. Neville’s surname thus simply means “long valley”.

    You might already be aware of that, but it’s not included in the article!

    Good work, though!

  • hpboy13

    Just thought I’d throw in my two cents about the only child thing: maybe purebloods have realzed that when you have more than one kid, there’s a greater chance of ending up with none. I don’t know if any of you have watched Stardust, but basically siblings might quarrel over the family fortune and whatnot and end up killing each other. While that’s not exactly hwo it turned out for the Blacks, they were one of the few pureblood families with more than one heir, yet of the set of five Blacks (Sirius, Reg, Bella, Cissy, Dromeda), the only one remaining alive was disowned, and there exists only Draco in the next generation. So all the Blacks have died out basically, and since Draco has only one heir (Scorpius), I doubt the line will last much longer unless Scorpius pulls a Weasley.

  • Sarah

    Ok, a little confused here. First of all, what is this “Scottish Book” that you mention, JJB and Reader2? Am I missing something important? Secondly, and less important, just wondering where the comments about God and death sprang from. I couldn’t see a connection.

    I love these pensieve “conversations.” They bring up some really interesting ideas and theories and are so much fun to read through.

  • Reader2

    hpboy13,

    I think you lost count of heirs.

    Right now there are tow who are alive, Narcissa and Andromeda.

    Were you trying to say that there is only one left who is alive AND NOT disowned?

  • Tommy

    @Sarah:
    The Scottish Book is the encyclopedia of Harry Potter which the Rowling has announced to publish soon. It’s called so first by Rowling, with reference to the Macbeth which is often called “the Scottish tragedy”, because there is a superstition that it is unlucky to speak the name Macbeth in the theatre…

  • Sarah

    Ah, my thanks Tommy. Definitely looking forward to seeing this Scottish Book/encyclopedia!

  • hpboy13

    Yeah, Reader2, that was my bad, that is what I meant to say. So out of a generation of five, two are disowned, one of them dead, three are left in the family, two of which are dead, and the remaining live ones have a single grandson apiece – not exactly good statistics. No wonder the purebloods are dying out!

  • Reader2

    Well, on the bright side, the epilogue sounded like those grandsons have a pretty good shot with the ladyes from a very fertile Weasley clan.
    I am sure they can rewive the dieing blood lines.

  • http://deleted JJB

    Speaking of bloodlines, it could be added to Apolline Delacour’s information that her mother was a veela making her one half veela and Fleur one fourth veela—her grandmother was one (GF18).Apolline must also have had siblings since there were veela cousins at the wedding and these could have come only from Apolline’s side of the family.
    One thing I would like to know about part-veela is at what point are they considered human? In DH5 Lupin didn’t check Hagrid’s identity pointing out Hagrid couldn’t take Polyjuice potion because it is for human use only; but Fleur is not technically human if she is one fourth veela and veela are not human women (GF8). To top it off, Fleur appeared to be throwing suspicion onto Hagrid just as a guilty person might do in order to keep suspicion off themselves. Because of that, I kept a suspicion in the back of my mind until the end of the trio’s stay at Shell Cottage that Fleur might be the traitor. As a result, I added suspense and dread to an already overly suspenseful story and was my own worst enemy. I could have used a restful stay at Shell Cottage, just like the trio, for a respite from the suspense, recuperation from the horrors, and to build up my strength for the final battle. I’ve wondered since if JKR intended this as a trap for the overly clever reader or if it was just me and I was simply too clever by half.

  • hpboy13

    I highly doubt those “fertile Weasley ladies” are particularly enticed by Scorpius, and Daddy Ron, at least, doesn’t seem very encouraging of the mathcup. As for Teddy, he’s by now twice-disowned – Andromeda was disowned for marrying Ted, then Tonks was put beyond redemption by marrying Remus. But it does seem like the Weasleys are the ones who’ll be reviving the purebloods, if all goes well.

  • hpboy13

    And JJB, you bring up a good point. Similarly, how far up the generations do you have to go to be considered pureblood? Because Harry’s pureblood for one generation and this labels him a “half-blood”, but Ernie MacMillan says he’s pureblood for nine generations, which appears ot make him pureblood beyond question. So at what point are you considered a pureblood? It’s somewhere between one and nine generations. Anyone have anything to add to this?

  • Reader2

    I remember that, in one of her interviews, JKR did give a specific number of generations required to be considered pur-blood, but I don’t remeber what it was, and I can not find that quote anywhere.

    I do, however, remember that she compared it to the requirements nazis set to be considered “arian”.

    If anyone can find that quote, I would appreciate it.

    By the way, Daddy Ron happenes to be the one who produces the idea of Rose and Scorpios together out of nowhere.

    Many parents had cursed themselves for jokes like that, and in a family like Wealseys, where passion, hot-headedness and stubborness are hereditory qualities, such jokes might be especially dangerous.

  • Big_Kelpie

    From Jo’s site(FAQ section):
    “Why are some people in the wizarding world (e.g., Harry) called ‘half-blood’ even though both their parents were magical?
    The expressions ‘pure-blood’, ‘half-blood’ and ‘Muggle-born’ have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators’ prejudices. As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as ‘bad’ as a Muggle. Therefore Harry would be considered only ‘half’ wizard, because of his mother’s grandparents.
    If you think this is far-fetched, look at some of the real charts the Nazis used to show what constituted ‘Aryan’ or ‘Jewish’ blood. I saw one in the Holocaust Museum in Washington when I had already devised the ‘pure-blood’, ‘half-blood’ and ‘Muggle-born’ definitions, and was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters. A single Jewish grandparent ‘polluted’ the blood, according to their propaganda.”

    That’s the only quote I found concerning blood-status definitions.
    It’s not really useful as she never makes clear what would sb like Lucius Malfoy consider pure-blood(she only mentions what they wouldn’t).
    Furthermore, had she stated that, we wouldn’t know what others consider pure-blood means.I’m quite sure that Marvolo Gaunt would have a different concept and so on.
    Probably the MoM has created an “offcial” politically-correct definition for pure-blood and half-blood.

    In my opinion, there would be a need of at least being third-generation wizard.

  • Tommy

    I think that the definitions are the following:
    Pure-blood: a witch or wizard with two wizarding parents and four wizarding grandparents (es. Black family, Malfoy family, Weasley family, Ernie MacMillan)
    Half-blood: a witch or wizard with at least one wizarding parent but at least one Muggle grandparent (es. Harry, Voldemort, Piton)
    Muggle-born (or, in a depreciative way, Mudblood): a witch or wizard with two Muggle parents (es. Hermione, Lily)

  • Tommy

    excuse me, I have done a mistake: “Piton” is for “Snape” (I’m Italian and in the Italian version “Snape” is translated with
    “Piton”)…

  • http://deleted JJB

    Ciao Tommy,
    I am not Italian but I speak Italian to a degree and have the first two books in audio in Italian. The reader says the name of Snape as if it is spelled “Paeton” so I’m glad to know what it really is.
    An interesting thing for the Lexicon might be to include some of the translated character names. For example, Dumbledore is Silenzio=silence, perhaps taking off on the sound of mumble, McGonnagall is McGranit perhaps taking off on her hard as stone demeanor. My favorite Italian character name translation is Madame Chips, aka Madame Pomfrey. I think that one is an association twice removed and plays off “pomme frites” in French which are chips in Britain.
    Interestingly, the trio and most of the students retain their names as given by Jo. Oliver Wood’s last name becomes Baston to provide the play on words about caning and Neville has a different name but I can’t remember it.
    I don’t have the other books in audio because there don’t seem to be any recorded in Italian after La Camera dei Segretti” but let me know if anyone knows of any more out there.

  • Tommy

    The name “Snape” recalls the word “snake”, then how “Piton” recalls the Italian word “pitone” (= “python”)… Another nice Italian translation is Sybill Trelawney that in Italian is Sibilla Cooman, with reference to the Cumaean Sibyl. Neville Longbottom in Italian is Neville Paciock, Horace Slughorn is translated in Horace Lumacorno (Slug = Lumaca, Horn = Corno), Gilderoy Lockhart become Gilderoy Allock (“allocco” in Italian literally wants to say “tawny owl”, but in illustrated sense it wants to say “fool”, “dolt”). Gryffindor is Grifondoro (= gold griffin), Slytherin is Serpeverde (= green serpent), Hufflepuff is Tassorosso (= red badger), Ravenclaw is Corvonero (= black raven). Other less personalities have the translated name, as also for instance the shops of Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade and the various magic objects. As regards the audiobooks I can’t tell you anything, I don’t know anything about them, I know that they exist, but I don’t know how many and what…

  • Bandersnatch

    That’s fascinating, Tommy. Thanks.

    JJB, I recall that Lisa was working on a page that would compare names in different language editions. I don’t remember whether she put it up or not. But check out the external links referenced at the bottom of this Wikipedia page:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_in_translation

    I particularly like the links to “The Sphinx’s Song…,” “database of Harry Potter terms…,” and “HP in Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese Translation.”

  • chris

    hey i dont know about anyone else ( i know this is off topic) but i think they should add anouther whats knew thing. i mean last time was the 16th and that was a long time ago i dont mean to be rude about anything

  • Big_Kelpie

    @ chris:
    actually this what’s new entry was updated on the 21st, so it hasn’t been that long since an update.
    I do agree thatanother entry with soem of the most recent changes would be nice.

  • http://deleted JJB

    Grazie Tommy and Thanks Bander!
    I never realized Lockheart’s name in Italian was the play on words that you pointed out–my Italian isn’t good enough for that.. The Wikipedia article mentioned that Italian fans got some things changed for later editions–was Dumbledore’s name among them? I found it very odd to encounter such beloved characters with such different names. But as Shakespeare said, a rose by any other name…

  • Kaz

    Still behind you Steve.

  • Tommy

    @JJB:
    I don’t konw what that Wikipedia article refers exaclty. Certainly there have been some mistakes in the translation from English, whom the principal has been translating both “half-blood” and “mudblood” with the Italian word “mezzosangue”, that literally wants to say “half-blood”, so that it has created some incomprehensions in the readers. Another important mistake has been in the “Order of the Phoenix”, where the “locket” found at Black home what no one was succeeding to open has been translated with “lucchetto” (= “padlock”) and not “medaglione” (= “medallion”); unfortunately this mistake has revealed himself very serious because that locket was one of the Horcrux. This latter mistake has been already corrected by the second reprint of the book. In general however Italian fans aren’t very pleased with the translation…

  • http://deleted JJB

    hpboy13, Big_Kelpie, Tommy, et al.,
    Returning to the definition of pure blood, it does seem that ministry has an official definition of who is acceptable as a wizard–at least one wizarding parent–because they didn’t go after Dirk Cresswell’s children or Mary Catermole’s even though they were both destined for Azcaban for being Muggleborn. There might not be an official definition of “Pureblood” that is accepted by all as seen by Umbridge pretenting the Slytherin locket was a family heirloom connecting her to the apparently Pureblood Selwin family. Even the Weaseleys didn’t talk about the second cousin accountant in their family. Tommy’s definition appears to be logical for the Ministry to adopt but many will look to enhance their bloodline credentials by examining more distant branches of others family trees.

    BTW, Tommy, where did a good Italian boy get a name like Tommy and I feel a bit stupid that I missed the Macbeth connection for the Scottish Book. *slaps hand to forehead* But thanks for enlightening me :)

  • Reader2

    JJB,
    You are forgetting that the Cresswel or McDonald kids would be classified “half-blood”, thus acceptible.

    They could not very well go after all the half-bloods, since that would cover nearly everyone, but having stronger linage was considered kind of prestige, may be even gave one special privilages or advantages in career making.
    The same way it used to be for noblemen in the real world.

  • Reader2

    Just wanted to point out to the staff of Lexicon that the Chocolate Frog Card Picture of Roland Kegg somehow ended up in the entry of Randolph Keitch, that is unless the quidditch player was also experimenting with gobstones.

  • Tommy

    @JJB: my true name is Tommaso, Tommy is a nickname…
    @Reader2: I agree with you on half-blood and pure-blood…

  • http://deleted JJB

    Tommy and Reader2, I agree with you both. That was the point I was trying to make but did it ineptly. On the positive side we all got to hear from you again so I did the Comments readers a service. *takes bow and waves* ;)

  • http://deleted JJB

    Happy Valentine’s Day, especially to everyone on the Lexicon staff! This isn’t exactly JKR’s favorite holiday given the ludicrous and disastrous results of the two times it was depicted in the books but I think it’s never a bad idea to take at least one day a year to say I Love You to someone, anyone, everyone…

    Since I love all of you Lexicon staffers so much I won’t even mention how stupid I felt at finding Jo’s explanation of the meaning of “The Scottish Book” in the FAQ section of her web site–I rarely check it for myself because I’ve grown lazy and depend on all you Lexicon Lags to keep me updated.

    Perhaps it’s good to be reminded from time to time how much some of us depend on all of you so that we never cease to fully appreciate all you do *stands to start standing ovation*

    BTW, a couple of articles have come out recently with interview comments by Jo and while little or no new canon was revealed, one point I found interesting was that Jo says all dates and numbers in the books are significant within her own life, starting with Harry’s birthdate being her own but (which we did know) but including all the others. I guess I always supposed something like that but this is the first absolute statement from Jo I’ve run across confirming it–of course that doesn’t mean it isn’t out there, only that I didn’t know of it.

  • Jodie

    JBB–wish I would have said it myself. HP-Lexicon has also caused me to become lazy. Miss the regular updates, but do get mu fill from the comments. Happy Valentines Day to everyone!!

  • Loader Lady

    I too am waiting patiently for the Lexicon book facts to out. “Calm down everyone.” The Lexicon is still the easiest way for me to check a fact. I’ve been checking here for years. Thank you Lexicon people for all you do.

    I do have a question. On the McGonagall page, she is listed as a Gryffindor but on the Gryffindor page, she is listed as BOTH a Gryffindor 1931-1938 and a possible Gryffindor. Either it’s a mistake, a left over from earlier versions of the page or I’m missing something important.

  • Recklesscatlover

    Hi, it’s a while. I did not realize this board was open until now. All my best to the Lexicon staff. Without their work I would not have enjoyed teh books so fully.

  • Reader2

    Loader Lady,

    “possible Gryffindor – M. G. McGonagall” does not refer to Minerva McGonagall, it refers to the name on a Quidditch award that appeared in the movie, but not in the book.
    The name is right next to “James Potter” so it can not possibly be MInerva, since she was a few decades ahead of James.
    Probably some relative of hers.

    Although, I do not see why “M. G. McGonagall” along with “R.H.J. King” (another name from the same trophey) are listed as “possible Gryffindors”.
    They never made into the book – granted, but if we are to accept their existence, they were definitely Gryffindors, and they were definitly enrolled in 1970s.

  • AnnDee

    On Newt Scamander’s page, you identify Rolf as his son. Elsewhere, Rolf is Newt’s grandson.

  • http://deleted JJB

    Under Bertie Bott’s entry there should be a note regarding the inconsistency with Dumbledore’s statement in PS that he once ate a vomit-flavored bean in his youth which, understandably, caused him to avoid them thereafter. But Bertie Bott was bornin 1935 when DD was already in his fifties and, even if Bertie Bott was a very precocious inventor, it means DD was well past what even wizards would call their “youth” when he ate his first one.

  • AnnDee

    From Rufus Scrimgeour’s page, “but his approach to the situation was not all that different from that of his successor.”

    That should be “predecessor”

  • http://deleted JJB

    Reading Dobby’s page I thought it might be nice to add the clothes he was buried in—Harry’s jacket, Ron’s socks/shoes, and Dean’s woolen hat ()DH24. I threw myself on the floor and cried harder than Winky the first time I read that passage as Ron sat on the edge of the grave and removed his shoes and socks.

    Which brings up the question, why wasn’t Dobby wearing socks or a hat when he came to rescue Harry? Also, why was Dobby able to be sent by Aberforth in the first place? Did Dobby leave Hogwarts and go to work for Aberforth rather than work for Snape—who may have been unwilling to pay him, not to mention the little detail of his killing DD—and then adopt the half-clothed guise so as not to draw attention to himself from the nasty sorts who frequent the Hogshead? Did the new Ministry bother to make some stupid law forbidding house-elves wearing clothes to codify their mark of enslavement?

    A minor point, on Dobby’s page it says “Dobby claims to be a secret keeper for Dumbledore.”
    “‘Tis part of the house-elf’s enslavement, sir. We keeps their secrets and our silence, sir. We upholds the family’s honor, and we never speaks ill of them.” … “Dobby likes Professor Dumbledore very much, sir, and is proud to keep his secrets and our silence for him.” GF21
    Keeping a secret is different from being a Secret Keeper. Saying he was Dumbledore’s secret keeper might be somewhat confusing.

    Finally, an eerie and odd foreshadowing in HBP is when Dobby promises Harry he will follow Malfoy for him “And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter!” (HBP19)
    It was Dumbledore who was thrown off that very topmost tower about 175 pages later.

  • Oryx

    JJB, I don’t think Dobby was a Hogwarts house-elf, he was hired privately by Dumbledore as his own employee. I suppose he could have had an arrangement for Aberforth to hire Dobby after his death.

  • Nevanthi

    i LOVE the new Professor Neville Longbottom” addition! From ZERO to HERO! BRILLIANT! Keep up the good work. HPL ROX!

  • Barbara Ilott

    I have enjoyed reading your very detailed profile of Neville Longbottom, but something has occurred to me that might be worth taking into account.

    It is clear that Neville changes quite radically from the awkward boy of the early books to the deputy hero of the last but I wonder if you have spotted what the crucial turning point is ?

    I think the really important moment is in the ward at St Mungo’s where Harry & co are visiting Gilderoy Lockhart and actually see what Neville’s mother has become. “Harry thought he had never seen anything less funny in all his life.” I think this sentence is absolutely crucial to understanding the situation. Although Neville is (as we used to say in England )”a late developer” what I think is really holding him back is his terror that his classmates will find out that his parents are in a mental institution – and MAKE JOKES ABOUT IT. We all know the kind of thing: “Nut cases” “Looney-bin” (= American “Funny Farm”) and so on. When “the worst happens” and Harry and co not only discover the truth about Alice Longbottom in front of Neville, but DON’T LAUGH AT HIM then he liberated from this devastatingly inhibiting fear and his development both in the DA and in the class-room comes on by leaps and bounds. Of course Harry already knows IN THEORY what has happened to the Lonmgbottoms – Dumbledore had told him the simple fact, but this encounter shows him really what Neville has had to put up with and that there is more than one way of being orphaned.

  • http://deleted JJB

    I agree that the scene in St. Mungo’s is pivotal for Harry et al and for we readers–it was the only moment in the book that brought real tears to my eyes. But I think Neville had already begun his transformation due to his acceptance that LV had returned. From the moment he stood up for Harry’s version of the facts against Seamus in the dorm room he showed he was taking things very seriously. He not only joined the DA but applied himself intensely–only becoming more intense after the news of Bellatrix’s escape with the other nine Des–and recklessly going after Malfoy for his joke about people with spell damage in St. Mungo’s. This happened before his Christmas visit to St. Mungo’s.

    Obviously, Neville’s journey to becoming a truly brave Griffyndor began in the first book as he stood up to Malfoy, Crab and Goyle at the Quidditch match, left the tower after hours to warn Harry that Malfoy was trying to get him into trouble over Norbert(a), and stood up to the trio to try to stop them from going out after hours again. He progressed steadily from then on but he truly began to show what he was made of when he joined the DA.

  • http://deleted JJB

    Quick note onRita Skeeter’s entry on the S page. It says she is currently unemployed, but Hermione only made Rita promise to refrain from writing for one year–meaning Rita could resume her journalism career around June of 1996. Also, it could be argued that her penning “The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledor” proves self-employment at least.

  • Gimpy

    I didn’t even know there were profile pages.

  • Tomato Sauce

    The Snape page really needs updating – it still lists his alliances as in question! And his Quotes page doesn’t have any quotes from DH, not even the famous “Look … at… me… ” . I’d argue for doing the page sooner rather than later because he had by far the biggest character reveal in DH, despite the relatively low pagecount for his presence.

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